I'm Shocked by How People Hold Their Mandolins

[yankees1]

Why do you care what others do??????

If it works for you....do it.

Yep!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SimpleAsCouldBe]

Pete Martin's video explanation on mandolin ergonomics

I'd love to find this. Pete has some great stuff on YouTube, but I can't find one on ergonomics.

[JonZ]

I'd love to find this. Pete has some great stuff on YouTube, but I can't find one on ergonomics.

The topic of the video is not ergonomics, it is about how to hold the mandolin, in which he emphasizes ergonomics.

[michaelpthompson]

OK I'm curious now. I've tried various positions with my mandolin strap, and have settled recently on putting it over the right shoulder and neck, much like I do with my guitar. I've got an A-style mandolin with a strap button on the side of the heel. I used it just over the neck for a while, and that worked fine for my bowlback with the strap tied to the headstock, but with the current setup on the heel, over the neck and right shoulder seemed better.

So what is the "correct" way to strap a mandolin to my body?

[Ravenwood]

Michael,

The more time you spend listening to many mandolin players the more you are likely to find that "the correct way" doesn't exist. As others mentioned early on in the discussion, it really is a matter of what works for you.

[MOJOHAND40]

a lot of it is just what you get used to. The first strap I got fit my mando to be hung from the shoulder (too short a strap to go to the headstock or to go around the neck)..therefore I got used to the single shoulder method.

[Bill Snyder]

Jon, I grew up playing viola. We learned early on that we should not have to hold the instrument up with our left hand. That is why we used shoulder pads so we could hold the instrument with our necks, shoulder and chin. Of course over the years I have seen fiddle players with TERRIBLE technique that could play circles around most of the people I grew up playing with.
As to being slumped back in their chair and having to have their left hands support the instrument I think you could be wrong. As I type this I am sitting in what I picture to be the posture you are talking about. If I pick up my tenor canjo while sitting like this I can support it very well with my right arm. No left hand needed. Just pulled out a mandolin and it is the same thing.
I am not recommending this posture, but i can see how it works.

[SternART]

What's a Dawg Leash?

If anyone is interested I have one of the original batch of limited production, custom made, adjustable Dawg leashes I might consider parting with. First offer of $100. gets it! Shipping to US included. I have a 2nd one that was beaded with a design derived from my art glass, so the plain one is an extra.

[jefg]

Relax. Whether golf or mandolin, some folks just play for fun. Shocking.

[Jim Garber]

Relax. Whether golf or mandolin, some folks just play for fun. Shocking.

I think this comment was, more or less, tongue-in-cheek. Besides it was over two years ago that even the last post was made. I have a feeling that the shock has worn off by now.

[Pete Martin]

Actually I do not use the left hand to hold the instrument at all, just the strap and the right hand in playing position.

The reason I studied ergonomics is after playing for years with "what worked for me" I got bad overuse injuries. I became a better player when I studied ergonomics.

Anyone wanting to see the ergonomic videos, see "Mandolin Basics, vol 1 - 5" at the Petimar Press web site.

[Michael H Geimer]

We have had a surge of mandolin players at my local jam, and I am shocked (shocked I tell you!) by how haphazardly they hold their instruments.

What's the deal?

...it is a question about general carelessness in holding the instrument.

Taking a different tack on this topic. The question so far has been, 'Why do some folk fail to acknowledge the value of good posture during jams?'. But I think we've ignored the more informative angle of questioning. 'What are these people thinking about that could be more important than good technique?'

A: Some people (most people?) jam to relax, and they arrive ready to immerse themselves in the music. In that sense what works for them is also the best thing to do.

[JeffD]

A: Some people (most people?) jam to relax, and they arrive ready to immerse themselves in the music. In that sense what works for them is also the best thing to do.

Cart and horse.

I think except for deliberate woodshedding we rarely if ever play in order to get better. We don't jam to get better, we work on geting better in order to jam better.

That surely doesn't mean that what ever we are doing at such moments is ok. It means that next time we are woodshedding, there may be some things to pay particular attention to.


Its really difficult (but I manage it) not to comment when seeing someone struggling with something I have solved. But it is very rarely (the difference between very rarely and never is too small to measure) appropriate to say anything.

Folks are just at where they are at.

When they see a need to get better, they will ask. Or not.

Its all I can do to pay attention to all the things I need to improve.

[Jim Nollman]

I have an injury in my right elbow from playing too many contra dances at top speed. I believe I got it because I had developed an effective double time/double stop style, not so different than what you might hear from a bluegrass or zydeco mandolin player, although rather unusual for a contra dance. I developed this style, and then performed it, always standing up.

However, over time I started copying the preference of the rest of my band members, all of whom prefer to play sitting down. Then I noticed that most visiting contra dance bands were also playing while sitting down. It seems also worthy to mention, that most mandolinists for contra dances prefer a rather relaxed strumming style that is easy to accomplish while sitting down. Playing my frenetic bluegrass/ zydeco style while sitting down — at 118 bpm — has led directly to the injury in my picking elbow.

That description may also explain why bluegrass mandolin players prefer to play standing up, and contra dance mandolin players prefer to play sitting down.

Fortunately, my wife is an occupational therapist. She has diagnosed my problem as "mandolin elbow". You heard it here, first. This malady is vaguely similar to tennis elbow, but involves different ligaments located on the inside point of the strumming elbow.

For the past two months I've been wearing a stretchy elbow brace whenever I rehearse or perform. I also loosened up my strap so the instrument hangs slightly lower, now at about belly height. Most important, I threw away the chair.

[AlanN]

We pick sitting down. At some point, we stand to 'get down'. Fiddle and banjo I think benefit from standing. Either way, one should sit up to really play well, the good posture thing.

I think on many recording sessions, bg pickers sit.

[SincereCorgi]

I think except for deliberate woodshedding we rarely if ever play in order to get better. We don't jam to get better, we work on geting better in order to jam better.

Perhaps I misunderstand you, but I think many, many musicians would disagree with that.

[JeffD]

Perhaps I misunderstand you, but I think many, many musicians would disagree with that.

Hmmmm. Well let me try and 'splain.

When I am at a jam, we are all playing the music together, for the fun of playing the music together, and all the fun aspects of playing music so documented in all our posts. We are not working on playing better or figuring out what we are doing wrong, or how we can improve, at these moments.

When I am playing a concert, or an open mike, or in front of people, I am playing the music as best I can, paying attention to the other musicians that may be with me, working at getting the best overall musical effect. I am not working on playing better, I am playing how I play as best I can.

The only time I am consciously trying to solve intonation problems, find shortcuts, pick up speed, work on pick direction, hold the instrument in an easier way, ... the only time I an consciously trying to improve anything at all, is when I am practicing back home.

I guess I kind of assumed that was universal.

[Michael H Geimer]

Cart and horse.

I think except for deliberate woodshedding we rarely if ever play in order to get better. We don't jam to get better, we work on geting better in order to jam better.

And so I suggested it is best to apply the values of Good Woodshedding to The Woodshed and the values of Good Jamming to The Jam. IOW: Leave the poor saps alone!

But I'll say this, I'm no slouch!

[JeffD]

IOW: Leave the poor saps alone!

There it is. Zactly.

[bratsche]

bratsche

[tmsweeney]

with the octave I find it makes a huge diff ( sitting down to practice)- if I am lazy and just let it hang on my right side ( strap over shoulder) - I find my left hand does not seem in the best position - if I hold it in my lap with the neck pointing up and away from me - ( more like a classical guitar) then I find my left hand is placed on the neck at an angle that is for me - advantageous - the stretches and chord shapes are easier and generally cleaner.
at jams I usually stand so it kind of falls into one position right in front of me with the neck pointing slightly up
it doesn't really bother me how other people hold their mandolins - kind of like those guys who hold the fiddle in the crook of their elbow instead of under the chin- not "proper" but if it works - why not.
what bothers me ( or captures my attention) is how the music sounds