Harmonica in BlueGrass

[Duane Graves]

One of the favorite instruements I play is the Harmonica. It's curious to me that there simply is no harp in BlueGrass music. At least none that I can remember hearing and I do listen to a lot of BlueGrass stuff especially on the on-line radio where of course it is one band after another. I was at a family party recently and there was lot's of music going on with banjo, guitars, spoons and stand up bass and all I had was a G and a D harp. I played them of course and I thought they blended real well even rising above other instruements on occasion. But still, you never hear them in BG bands. Does the harp conflict with the fiddle or something?

Duane.....

[Laird]

Good question. We have harps show up at our weekly jams, and they're welcome. We have both a harp and a fiddle in my band, but we're not purists--and the two of them do have to feel out how to play around each other. That said, our harp player is phenomenal, and we all sound better as a result.

[Capt. E]

One of the main reasons for including or excluding an instrument from a combo is its sonic characteristics, but that shouldn't be a problem with harmonica in bluegrass. I know my mandolin just doesn't work in cajun music where it is overpowered and sonically disappears because of the accordion. I suspect it is due to the general prejudice that harmonica is an old time / blues instrument not to be made part of what is basically a string band. You don't see clarinets, tubas or trumpets in a bluegrass band either...dixieland bluegrass anyone???? There was a time in cajun music (late 1940's into the '50's) where you didn't see accordions. They call it the string band era.

[MOJOHAND40]

What follows is mostly my opinion based on 1) Being a fan of Bluegrass, 2) A bit of a Harmonica player myself. So take my opinions for what they are worth..two cents..

Harmonica is not part of Traditional Bluegrass at all. That is a fact. No matter how you slice it. It can fit in old time music, sure, but true Traditional Bluegrass has no harmonicas, never did. Argue it if you want, but be prepared to have real examples.

Now, non-trad bluegrass: Harmonica players seldom fit in. Why? (what follows is opinion, folks..don't mean to offend) Most harmonica players who want to "Jam"
1) Usually know nothing of Bluegrass standards and want to just "wing it".
and
2) MOST harmonica players can't play very well in first position, or major scale.

Most harmonica players are adapt at Cross harp, or second position harmonica which clashes horribly with bluegrass players who are for the most part playing Major scales or Major Pentatonic. (Most blues guys and Harmonica guys play in Minor Pentatonic).

Now, sure there may be some Larry Adlers out there, or some Jerry Murads, that can play harmonica at the level required to play complex bluegrass or fiddle tunes, BUT...I haven't seen any at a jam..ever.

[Tom C]

Bluegrass consists of string instruments. -and not all of them

[farmerjones]

We have a true pro. harmonica player that jams with us. He can play everything from fiddle tunes, to whailin' Blues rampages. I don't fiddle over his breaks and he doesn't crank on top of mine. He can do a chug similar to a mandolin chop. We trade back and forth on tags, tails and licks. I'd say it depends on the operator. Some can speak the language, some can't.

If you want to get right down to it, a dobro isn't a BG instrument either according to Bill Monroe.

[David]

A friend of mine here in Nashville, PT Gazell, released a bluegrass harmonica album in the mid 70s with the likes of Ricky Skaggs and Jerry Douglass on it, it was on Sugar Hill and has been re-released. Today he's mostly a jazz player, but still sits in with my band from time to time to tear up Roanoke, Lonesome Moonlight Waltz, or Billy in the Lowground. Check it out here:

http://www.ptgazell.com/Pace_Yoursel...#Pace_Yourself

[JeffD]

Of course there is SPBGMA rule number 3:

3. The only instruments that will be permitted are as
follows: Five-string Banjo, Flat-top Guitar, Mandolin,
Fiddle, Dobro, and Bass Fiddle. Below are the combinations
and the ONLY combinations that will be recognized
by the SPBGMA judging officials:
4 MEMBER MANDATORY REQUIREMENT
A-Five-string banjo
B-Flat-top guitar
C-Mandolin
D-Bass fiddle
5 MEMBERS
(The 4 Member Mandatory Requirement, Plus ONE
of the following)
A-Fiddle
B-Guitar
C-Mandolin
D-Dobro
E-Non-musician vocalist
6 MEMBERS
(The 4 Member Mandatory Requirement, Plus ONE
of the following combinations)
A-Two fiddles
B-One fiddle and one guitar
C-One fiddle and one dobro
D-One fiddle and one mandolin
E-One guitar and one dobro
F-One guitar and one mandolin
G-One dobro and one mandolin
UP TO TWO (2) NON-MUSICIAN VOCALIST MAY BE
ADDED TO MAKE UP THE 6 MEMBER MAXIMUM


I get a kick out of that "non-musician vocalist". I have met a few of them.

I love harmonica in traditional music of all kinds, and to my ear it can work just fine in bluegrass. But some folks give Ricky Skaggs a hard time for having too many and the wrong kind of guitars in his band.

I'm just sayin...

[allenhopkins]

...Harmonica is not part of Traditional Bluegrass at all. That is a fact. No matter how you slice it. It can fit in old time music, sure, but true Traditional Bluegrass has no harmonicas, never did. Argue it if you want, but be prepared to have real examples...

Ya know, I am gradually trying to break the habit of throwing around "always" and "never," even when I think I know the answer. In a current thread on Civil War music, and whether it featured mandolin, I made a lot of definitive statements -- then did a bit of research, and found that there were exceptions and counter-examples galore.

Nashville session harmonica player Charlie McCoy appeared on several Flatt & Scruggs albums. True, he didn't tour with them, and wasn't considered part of their band, but the record company obviously felt his "harp" added to the F&S sound on certain tunes. African-American harmonicist DeFord Bailey toured with Bill Monroe and the Blue Grass Boys in the 1940's. Monroe had Bailey sit next to him in the back seat of their limo (some of the other band members objected to sitting next to a black man); he brought Bailey's meals to him in the car, when restaurants wouldn't serve him, and arranged for his hotel room in the segregated South. (Richard Smith, Can't You Hear Me Callin': The Life of Bill Monroe, p. 71-72). Did Bailey play any numbers with the band? Don't know at this point.

Is there a place for harmonica in bluegrass? I think the answer awaits the emergence of a "harp" player who really wants to play in that style, and finds a band that will work him/her into their music. In my life since the Mesozoic Era, I've heard that bluegrass couldn't possibly accept [1] women, [2] electric bass, [3] instrument pickups, [4] "chromatic/melodic" banjo playing, [5] Bob Dylan songs, [5] long hair, [6] Jerry Garcia, [7] lead guitar playing, and a string of other taboos and fetishes. The music seems to be surviving and prospering despite the transgressions of its heretics.

By the way, I've just been contacted by members of a young family bluegrass band, who want me to teach them McCoy's harmonica break to John Hardy, as performed by Flatt & Scruggs. Absolute rules have a way of being less absolute that some of us present them.

Later: Hey, listen to that F&S w/Doc Watson cut again -- isn't that Kenny Buttrey on brushed snare drum? But that can't be! THERE ARE NO DRUMS IN BLUEGRASS!!

[TonyP]

Mojohand 40 hit the nail on the head. You wouldn't believe how many supposed bluegrass fans think harmonica IS a bluegrass instrument. I've found usually they don't know the difference between Old Time, and Bluegrass though.

But, if they are a good musician, and know the music, anybody can sit in, and work in a jam. There's a harmonica guy I've played with at the big festivals in jams for 20yrs, and is great at playing all kinds of stuff. Songs, fiddle tunes, you name it. I love his backup too. I've also jammed with a great accordion player with my bluegrass band, and it sounded wonderful. Made the banjo player cringe though, and that alone was worth it

I feel for both these individuals, as they really have watch their p's and q's. I've seen people give them the cold shoulder in jams. And it's too bad, as they both know the music. But, you should see the looks of the more stodgy folks when they come rolling up,and like the look on those same stodgy folks when it's time for the "outsiders" to take a break. Not only nail it, but like do a Mr.Bill lick! priceless. But I've also seen people walk up with a harmonica and just bring a jam to a standstill.

[JeffD]

But, if they are a good musician, and know the music, anybody can sit in, and work in a jam.

Yessir.

[Tom C]

Folks can play bluegrass music with other instruments. but it ain't bluegrass.

[Alex Orr]

We've got a guy at one of our local jams who is an excellent harp player, in particular, he does terrific fiddle tune breaks on the harmonica, which is not the most common thing to hear.

[Duane Graves]

I've also jammed with a great accordion player with my bluegrass band, and it sounded wonderful. Made the banjo player cringe though, and that alone was worth it.

...(wink)

[resophil]

Every year at Wintergrass, there's a gentleman who wanders around clad with one of those belt/holster things with a selection of harps therein. (He can be annoying in any key you wish to name....) After observing the reaction of the assembled multitude for the past 15 years, I can report that he has taken on the mantle of Moses. The throng of musicians parts, as did the Red Sea, at his approach. You can see a tangible cringe from some people when he stops on the outer edge of a jam circle. More jams have been broken over the years than I can count.

If you want to jam with bluegrassers, you gotta fit in! If you can't, chances are they won't say much, but will soon pack up their tent and look for a better jam... And that goes for any instrument, not just harp!

[MikeEdgerton]

Every year at Wintergrass, there's a gentleman who wanders around clad with one of those belt/holster things with a selection of harps therein. (He can be annoying in any key you wish to name....) After observing the reaction of the assembled multitude for the past 15 years, I can report that he has taken on the mantle of Moses. The throng of musicians parts, as did the Red Sea, at his approach. You can see a tangible cringe from some people when he stops on the outer edge of a jam circle. More jams have been broken over the years than I can count.

If you want to jam with bluegrassers, you gotta fit in! If you can't, chances are they won't say much, but will soon pack up their tent and look for a better jam... And that goes for any instrument, not just harp!

I may know that guy. Either that or he has a soul mate in NJ. By the way, one night we had a guy on a clarinet that could take a break with the best of them. It was interesting to say the least.

[jaycat]

I find the SPBGMA "guidelines" (manifesto?) a hoot, and this discussion interesting in general.

I'm not a huge BG fan -- though I have seen Bill Monroe, Doc Watson (does he qualify?) and the Dillards perform. So I'm pretty ignorant on the topic.

Is BG felt to be a growing, evolving musical genre? Or is it a form to be "preserved?" Placing such strict boundaries would seem to encourage an insular mind-set and audience.

Are new BG songs (with lyrics) being written? I don't include instrumentals, which pretty much seem to be variations on one another.

Illuminate me!

thx, jc.

[Mattg]

There's two harmonica players that show up to a few local jams who seems to get the sound or feel of bluegrass way better than alot of folks. They often play some fantastic breaks and I really enjoy their contributions especially in bluesy numbers.

There is also a fellow who plays a cajun size accordian who occasionally shows up to local jams. He cranks out some really nice BG breaks.

All three of these guys fit in pretty well, but the harmonicas seems to fit the best. Not sure why it's not part of bluegrass. It's not so much what insturment they are playing but how they play it.

[Mattg]

In my life since the Mesozoic Era, I've heard that bluegrass couldn't possibly accept [1] women, [2] electric bass, [3] instrument pickups, [4] "chromatic/melodic" banjo playing, [5] Bob Dylan songs, [5] long hair, [6] Jerry Garcia, [7] lead guitar playing, and a string of other taboos and fetishes. The music seems to be surviving and prospering despite the transgressions of its heretics.

Wow. Great post but this passage almost made me snort my coffee all over my laptop.

[Andy Alexander]

The harmonica has ruined a lot of good Jim an Jesse shows for me. However, I have heard harp players that know how to make their instrument fit in BG. Bob Meehan who used to show up at festivals in the northeast comes to mind.

[MOJOHAND40]

There is exceptions to every rule, and a few here have heard harmonica players hold there own. But, that is the exception. Not the rule. And yes, Charlie McCoy (a great session player) did a few numbers with Flatt and Scruggs,...not exactly a canon of material, huh?

Anyway, like I said earlier, I myself play harmonica and am well aware of the stigma and prejudices against it at jams (not ONLY bluegrass jams, BTW!) but I maintain there is a REASON for this.
Let me explain.

Take a Blues jam for example:
For every one competent harmonica player that can play tastefully and in the right key, who doesn't overplay....there are maybe 30 who are terrible and play through the WHOLE song Every song on a key of C harmonica (no matter the key the band is playing) over the vocals and the guitarist breaks.

Now that is in Blues, where there is certainly a wealth of Harmonica acceptance..

Now introduce Harmonicas to bluegrass and for every One Harmonicists who plays tastefully, in the right key and actually knows Bluegrass...(and I am sure there are some out there!) there are probably 100 more harmonicists who do a big "draw" bend on the 4rth hole while flapping their hands at the end of every verse on a C harmonica.

Seriously, I agree that if someone can play and knows the material then let 'em jam no matter what the instrument, but a harmonica is inexpensive and fits in a pocket, which tends to equal little commitment from most "players" who pick one up on a whim.
Now show me more harmonica cats like Brendon Powers (An AMAZING harp player from Ireland, look him up!) and I'll change my opinions.

[Jim DeSalvio]

One of our guitar players will pull out a harp from time to time. We love, it and he fits it in on the right songs. I keep looking around for the BG police, but they have not shown up yet..............

[MOJOHAND40]

on a side note :
A long time ago I was talking with the late Piedmont Bluesman,John Jackson before one of his shows and he mentioned how he wished they'd put a "Metal Detector walkthrough thing, like at the Airport" at the door to weed out harmonica players.
HA!

[Willie Poole]

Whoa!!!! Jim and Jesse had a harmonica player that was a regular member of their band for quite some time.....

My band was booked on a bluegrass festival and we had twin fiddles and a good friend of mine that plays a harmonica wanted to do the show with us and the two fiddle players said they wanted no part of it because the harp clashed with the fiddles and I would rather have the twin fiddles than one harp.....Many years ago before electronic tuners most bluegrass bands just tuned to wherever the guitar was tuned and it never was to a standard tuning so the harmonica never fit in....My dad was as good of a harmonica player as I have ever heard including, Charlie McCoy, and when he wanted to jam we used his harmonica to tune by so after that I carried a harmonica just to use to tune the instruments to a standard tuning, I can`t play one tho...Been thinking about trying to learn tho.....Willie

[AlanN]

Harmonica as a pitch pipe...has some promise.