Would Gold Rush be copyrighted?

[Willie Poole]

A few years back here on radio station WAMU they were interviewing Peter Rowand and he talked about a song that Monroe had written (can`t recall the song now) and the DJ played the recording and right after that he played a old, old record of the same song that was written and recorded by a black man long before Bill claimed it....After that I heard that Monroe often paid a small fee for songs that other people had written and he listed them as songs that he had written....Gene Autry did the same thing with some of his "cowboy" songs....If only I could sell some that I have written.....sigh

[FrDNicholas]

I downloaded the TableEdit file and then opened the tune in it. This gave me a whole page of tablature. I looked in the FAQ of TableEdit which said to click on the "M" in the lower right-hand of the screen to switch to standard notation. I have looked everywhere for this "M" and can't see it. Can someone lead me through this process? I would be most grateful.

[FrDNicholas]

I found the way to get the notation, so please ignore my last post. Thanks for the help. Now I have tons of tunes to work on!

[Tbone]

For recording a song or tune, what you really need to find out is who owns the rights and whether or not you need to obtain a mechanical license. (Search the forum for exhaustive discussions on the topic.)

The licensing agent for most U.S. music is the Harry Fox Agency, and they have a public song search feature here:

http://www.harryfox.com/songfile/pub...blicsearch.jsp

I checked on "Gimme Back My Fifteen Cents" and it returned no results. That isn't necessarily conclusive evidence that you can go ahead and record the tune without a license, but it's a good start.

"Gold Rush" is listed as a Bill Monroe piece. It wasn't unusual for Bill to get the lion's share of credit for songs and tunes his bandmates helped work out or even composed outright.

To see if a song or tune is already acknowledged as in the public domain, try:

http://www.pdinfo.com/

A search there also resulted in no hits.

A search at the Folk Index attributed the song to the Binkley Brothers' Dixie Clodhoppers, but didn't indicate writer, copyright, or publishing rights. That wouldn't be unusual for old-time songw, many of which were based on or cobbled togther from older songs.

http://www.ibiblio.org/folkindex/kwframe.htm

A few more good-faith efforts with no results would probably suffice for you to attribute the tune to public domain.

Good luck.

Thanks Paul!

[ralph johansson]

A few years back here on radio station WAMU they were interviewing Peter Rowand and he talked about a song that Monroe had written (can`t recall the song now) and the DJ played the recording and right after that he played a old, old record of the same song that was written and recorded by a black man long before Bill claimed it....After that I heard that Monroe often paid a small fee for songs that other people had written and he listed them as songs that he had written....Gene Autry did the same thing with some of his "cowboy" songs....If only I could sell some that I have written.....sigh

Probably Rocky Road Blues. I don't think Monroe bought it. He did buy How Will I Explain from Arthur Q Smith in Knoxville and Goodbye Old Pal from Cliff Carlisle - for 15 dollars (I heard this from Monroe himself).

[michellefiddle]

Here's the sheet music for Gold Rush that I transcribed. Hope you can open it.

https://www.noteflight.com/scores/vi...f67d479f6f640d

[Pete Martin]

Berline was camped in the trailer next to me about 3 years ago at Weiser. I asked him if he had written Gold Rush and he said "That's Bill's tune".

I had always assumed Byron had written it and Bill claimed authorship as this was the common practice for bandleaders.

Just saying what he told me...

[Russ Jordan]

Maybe he meant it was "Bill's tune" because Bill had ownership. I interviewed Byron by phone, mmm, close to 20 years ago. I asked about Gold Rush, and he joked that he didn't think it would amount to anything so he let Bill have it!

[Spruce]

He just laughed when I asked him if it was OK to rename it "Cold Rush" on "Overhead At Darrington", and not pay him royalties...

I was just being facetious, but then he said something like what he told Pete--"that's Bill's tune anyway"...

FWIW, I don't believe him...

[ralph johansson]

Tony Rice insists it's Berline's tune. Unless Byron fills us all in, it's just one of those fun exercises in futility.

According to Berline (email to Charles Wolfe) it was Monroe's idea, which he helped shape into an old-time fiddle tune. Berline also contributed the out chorus.

[ralph johansson]

According to Berline (email to Charles Wolfe) it was Monroe's idea, which he helped shape into an old-time fiddle tune. Berline also contributed the out chorus.

Sorry, Neil Rosenberg, not Charles Wolfe. I've already posed on this topic, didn't realize it was an old thread.

[stringalong]

Tony Rice insists it's Berline's tune. Unless Byron fills us all in, it's just one of those fun exercises in futility.

Here's a YouTube of Byron Berline describing his and Bill Monroe's collaboration on Gold Rush: Byron Berline plays all 3 parts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y8sStWw7Po

[ralph johansson]

Oops, turns out I already commented on this. TWICE!! Moral: always check the date of the
initial post.

[KEB]

A few years back here on radio station WAMU they were interviewing Peter Rowand and he talked about a song that Monroe had written (can`t recall the song now) and the DJ played the recording and right after that he played a old, old record of the same song that was written and recorded by a black man long before Bill claimed it....After that I heard that Monroe often paid a small fee for songs that other people had written and he listed them as songs that he had written....Gene Autry did the same thing with some of his "cowboy" songs....If only I could sell some that I have written.....sigh

It's not like that type of practice was unique to Mr. Monroe. Carter Stanley, who is listed as the author of hundreds of classic songs, drove around the country buying the rights off of anyone he could find. He'd pay someone a few bucks to sell the rights to songs they didn't really own. The notion of authorial credit for "folk" music is a pretty recent phenomenon, so "owning" the credit to a song you wrote really doesn't go back that far. Broadsheets of the 19th century looked like they were "authentic" but there was no real copyright protection for pop music. The first real professional songwriter was Stephen Foster-- and that only goes back to the mid 19th century.

In our modern world of intellectual property and ownership of thoughts and music, we've really made this issue confusing, and occasionally terribly contentious.

[allenhopkins]

It's not like that type of practice was unique to Mr. Monroe. Carter Stanley, who is listed as the author of hundreds of classic songs, drove around the country buying the rights off of anyone he could find. He'd pay someone a few bucks to sell the rights to songs they didn't really own.

One of the most prolific "song researchers/stealers" was A P Carter, who put his name on a bunch of public domain songs. The Lomaxes, John and Alan, weren't bad at it either.

The notion of authorial credit for "folk" music is a pretty recent phenomenon, so "owning" the credit to a song you wrote really doesn't go back that far. Broadsheets of the 19th century looked like they were "authentic" but there was no real copyright protection for pop music.

We've had copyright laws in the US since 1790. Presumably they extended to musical composition as well as literary works. The idea that an arrangement of an otherwise public domain song can be copyrighted -- the basis for copyrighting "folk music" -- may be a later development.

The first real professional songwriter was Stephen Foster-- and that only goes back to the mid 19th century.

Which, of course, doesn't imply that he was the first to write, or copyright, musical compositions.

In our modern world of intellectual property and ownership of thoughts and music, we've really made this issue confusing, and occasionally terribly contentious.

Agree wholeheartedly.