K&K Meridian Pro mini mic

[Barb Friedland]

I discovered this new amplification system while browsing at the K&K website and decided to try it out. First review:

• The mic attachment clamp works well but has to be removed to fit the instrument in the case- no big deal for me.
• The mandolin package comes complete with the Meridian Pro Preamp and it so far seems adequate for my needs.
• Initial testing impressed me with a very clean, natural sound. No quacking and no feedback. I installed the mic clamp near the treble side f-hole on my mando and positioned the flexible gooseneck such that the mic was in contact with the soundboard. No problem at all with it being in the way. (There is no way I would want to mount it the way the illustration on their website shows it!)

If there's interest, I can post a picture of the installation. The real test will be at two band gigs this weekend. So far, this looks like a nice addition to the K&K product line.

http://www.kksound.com/meridianmando.html

[Rvl]

Yes please post photos and results of the gigs
If you can get some mp3's


Thanks

Robert VanLane

[Doug Edwards]

$449! My K&K Silver Bullet is just fine, thanks

[Don Grieser]

Some competition for the DPA mic? Not as slick of a mounting system as the DPA though. Should sound amazing at that price.

[250sc]

A good mic and pre-amp/eq for $445 isn't bad.

[Barb Friedland]

$449! My K&K Silver Bullet is just fine, thanks

Funny you mention it. I have been a Silver Bullet devotee but have had some recent issues with it. The bullet is still a fine choice but I think the Meridian system is a step up. The good news is the Meridian system doesn't necessarily cost the amount stated. The outlet price was almost $100 less when I ordered it.

[Hubert Angaiak]

How did this work out for you in a gig? Any feed back issues if you are in a small space if the speakers are really close? Thank you!!

[Hubert Angaiak]

Hello Barb... How did the pickup test out? I am very interested about your findings.
Thank you in advance.Hubert

[almeriastrings]

This kind of system has been around a while and has been used on quite a few instruments, including guitar. There are a number of reasons why they can be problematic:

1) The mic is fixed during performance so you cannot move in and out on it to control dynamics;
2) Mechanical feedback (including handling noise) is always an issue where a mic is fixed to a resonating body (I know they talk about shock absorbing clamps, but the fact is they have very limited effectiveness - you can test this by recording a track of 'silence' while handling the instrument);
3) They can get in the way, either physically or visually;
4) You have to pre-decide a "sweet spot" and you are then stuck with it unless you take it off and fix it again. You can't have several "sweet spots" as you can with a separate mic.

For me, 1) is the real killer. The ability to move in and out of the mic's pickup field is extremely useful. You just cannot do that with these systems. If you need a quick "volume" adjustment you have to go turn a knob...

[Eliot Greenspan]

couln't you just run the pre-amp out into a simple volume pedal? that would address most of the dynamic/volume concerns

[Tim2723]

Thanks for posting this Barb. I for one would like to hear your opinion after a couple of month's working with it.

[almeriastrings]

couln't you just run the pre-amp out into a simple volume pedal? that would address most of the dynamic/volume concerns

You can - still not quite as versatile as a fixed mic, and not as instinctive (unless you are an electric guitarist, possibly) and you also cannot vary the "focus" of the mic, i.e, closer to the fingerboard, bridge. For some kinds of music it might work...

[foldedpath]

A few counter-arguments here, as someone who uses clip-on mics (DPA 4099 on mandolin and guitar, Audio-Technica ATM350 on Dobro):

This kind of system has been around a while and has been used on quite a few instruments, including guitar. There are a number of reasons why they can be problematic:

1) The mic is fixed during performance so you cannot move in and out on it to control dynamics;

(snip)
For me, 1) is the real killer. The ability to move in and out of the mic's pickup field is extremely useful. You just cannot do that with these systems. If you need a quick "volume" adjustment you have to go turn a knob...

It's true that this is one of the big advantages of using an external mic. However, this is somewhat dependent on style of music (not everyone takes solos), and use of dynamics. Where gain boost is needed, it can be done with a volume pedal or boost pedal. For the big acts, it can be done with the soundperson riding the gain on the mixer, or the players might just be good enough to use dynamics and not need a gain boost. The "Celtic trio" I play in doesn't do solo breaks, so it's easier to focus on player dynamics to adjust volume as needed. In another band where we did take solo breaks, I used a floor preamp with a boost switch (TC G-Natural) for solos.

Working the mic for volume is a tradition in Bluegrass, but if this was a deal-killer for playing with a clip-on mic, you wouldn't see bands like Mountain Heart (Aaron Ramsey) and Chris Thile wth Punch Brothers using clip-on mics. Here's a shot that shows Aaron's mic, and there are videos of Punch Brothers where you can see Thile's little mic poking over the lower F-hole:

http://content.bandzoogle.com/users/.../2633989.jpg?1

2) Mechanical feedback (including handling noise) is always an issue where a mic is fixed to a resonating body (I know they talk about shock absorbing clamps, but the fact is they have very limited effectiveness - you can test this by recording a track of 'silence' while handling the instrument);

A good gooseneck mount provides plenty of isolation, and will pick up less handling noise than a contact or bridge pickup. The only problem I've run into is with fiddlers, where you have to be careful with the location and aim-point, to avoid breath noise.

3) They can get in the way, either physically or visually;

Modern systems like the DPA are very small, and are typically mounted at the treble F-hole, where they're out of the way of your picking hand. I think stage photos of bands like Punch Brothers and Mountain Heart, where they use clip-ons on mandolin, banjo, and fiddle (not sure about guitar), demonstrate pretty well how unobtrusive they are visually. I think it's less intrusive and more "acoustic" looking than standing in front of a steel forest of mic stands, and it allows the players to move around and interact more freely.

4) You have to pre-decide a "sweet spot" and you are then stuck with it unless you take it off and fix it again. You can't have several "sweet spots" as you can with a separate mic.

I suppose there's something to this, if you actually do place the mandolin at different angles to a mic, to get different tones during a performance. I'm not convinced it balances the advantage of higher gain before feedback and freedom of movement around the stage. My main priority in a live performance is good tone (and just a single tone will do), while maximizing gain before feedback. An external mic on a stand will always be a few db shy in headroom before feedback, because it just can't get as loud as a clip-on pointed right at the F-hole boundary. That is, unless you have a superhuman ability to hold the mandolin a few millimeters away from an external mic, and lock into that position during your solo.


Again, at the risk of "arguing from authority,"if clip-on mics didn't work well, as the best of both worlds between external mics and a pickup, then you wouldn't see major acts using it. I have some doubts about this K&K system compared to the alternatives (including their own Silver Bullet), but I've been happy with the sound and convenience of my DPA and Audio-Technica mics.

[Michael Ramsey]

Just for clarification sake with regard to Aaron Ramsey's use of the DPA mic. Aaron doesn't use the gooseneck built for the DPA microphones. They have taken the mic element, which is smaller than a pencil eraser, and used gaff tape to tape it and the wire from the mic element to a stiff loop of wire a bit bigger than an E string from a guitar. That rig is then secured to the side of the mandolin below the treble F hole, also with gaff tape. The tape can stay on the mandolin for a long time and does not mar the finish or become stiff and break apart when it's time to change it out.

Sometimes there is a bit of residue when removing the tape, but it cleans up very easily and nicely, with a cloth.

I wish I had a better pic to show you.

Also, Aaron doesn't have to remove the mic when he puts the beast back into it's coffin. Big plus.

[Hubert Angaiak]

This is good info. There are different DPA mics and wondered if 4099 is different then the other mini mics DPA have on their website. I like the fact its small. This is really worth looking into. Thank you all the responses and info.

[Charlieshafer]

[QUOTE=almeriastrings;907357]This kind of system has been around a while and has been used on quite a few instruments, including guitar. There are a number of reasons why they can be problematic:

1) The mic is fixed during performance so you cannot move in and out on it to control dynamics;


The other way to deal with this is something that many players do. It uses the fixed mini-mic as the base for normal accompaniment, so the player can step back, move around, etc with no loss in a base volume for 80% of the performance. There is also an instrument mic, with the gain set for soloing. The musician need only step up to the solo mic for the increased volume needed for the solo. This represents the best of both worlds, we use it quite a lot, with perfect results every time. No need to worry about sound guys missing cues or an extra pedal or connection in the mix. Perfect feedback control, perfect volume control, all show long. Works on guitars, violins, mandolins, you name it. One instrument, two mics, one on the instrument, one to step up to, no mystery hums or buzzes from pedals which have been abused through the years, and sound guys can just relax, the show is in the performer's hands.

[foldedpath]

There are different DPA mics and wondered if 4099 is different then the other mini mics DPA have on their website. I like the fact its small.

As far as I can tell, the 4099 is a separate model from the other DPA sun-miniature mics. It might use a similar capsule, but the mic housing is very different; sort of a mini-shotgun design. Click on the following link to another forum post, and scroll down to see some photos of how I mount the 4099. One photo is a closeup of the mic with the foam blimp removed. Nothing else in the DPA lineup looks like that:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...55338-Dpa-4099

It's weird, but it sounds great and is good at rejecting feedback. Maybe the "shotgun" tube helps? My only beef with DPA is the very high price for accessories like extra mounts, if you want to use the same mic on different instruments. Or plug adapters for wireless systems. The mic itself is expensive enough, but they really sting 'ya on accessories.

[Hubert Angaiak]

Thank you Foldedpath! Very good info! I think this will be a good investment!

[almeriastrings]

The DPA's are excellent microphones. AT have also made some nice mini-mics. The 'blender' approach outlined above can work very well, I've used that quite a lot combining a PUP and mic... sort of like a built in blender system but with a lot more control. Can work very well indeed.

[Perry]

1) The mic is fixed during performance so you cannot move in and out on it to control dynamics;
separate mic.

For me, 1) is the real killer. The ability to move in and out of the mic's pickup field is extremely useful. You just cannot do that with these systems. If you need a quick "volume" adjustment you have to go turn a knob...

Agreed very important; one of my favorite aspects of the Schertler is it's ability to respond to right hand dynamics

[Fabian]

Hi everyone,

I'm bringing back an old thread, as it seems to make sense, rather than creating a new one.

I'm about to buy this mic. http://www.kksound.com/products/meridian.php#simple2

But I'm wondering if I should buy the pre-amp with it.
When it comes to acoustic, and when I need to amplify the signal, I've almost always been using an AER amplifier, which has its own pre-amp.
http://www.aer-amps.com/index.php?op...100403&lang=en
I suppose you know this german brand. Really good products.

Do you think I should buy a K&K pre-amp, if they are that good compared to the AER or if I should have one for any other reason ?

Thanks for your help !
Fabien

[foldedpath]

Fabien, I think you'll need to buy the K&K preamp with the mic, since it requires low voltage bias power and apparently connects to the preamp with a 1/4" mono plug (bias power runs in "phantom" mode on one of the wires).

Other clip-on mics like the DPA 4099, ATM350, etc. include an XLR barrel adapter with an internal step-down transformer, so you can plug those mics directly into a mic input on a mixer, or an amp with a mic input and phantom power like your AER amp. This K&K mic doesn't include that -- they want you to buy their preamp as the "adapter," so you're stuck with that, I think.

[Fabian]

I couldn't have wished for a more complete answer. Thanks a lot.
I think I'm gonna buy one. As you don't seem convinced by the quality of this mic compared to what you have (so to speak), I'll be glad to contribute to this debate and bring some material eventually so you can build an opinion about it. But maybe I'll need some clues on what to do then...