Singing Harmony ????

[wamjr52]

This may be a very dumb question, but here goes, when singing a song in the key let's say "G" will the lead or melody always be "B"? And the baritone "G" and the tenor "D" and the bass "G" an octive below the baritone? Or does it depend on how the lyrics were written? Must long time singers just say they can hear their part and I am sure they can, but there has to be a starting place for us beginers. What I need is some general guidelines and I can figure it out on a guitar and then get to the exceptions to the rules as they crop up.

[Jordan Ramsey]

Generally, the three harmony notes are going to be the chord tones of the key. Ex. Key of G = the chord tones are G, B, D. Regardless of what note the lead is, the tenor will usually be the next chord tone up and the baritone will be the next below. Ex. Key of G, melody (lead) is a G note. The tenor would be the B above and the baritone would be the D below. If the melody is a D note, the tenor would be the G above, and the baritone would be the B below, etc. Bass is usually the root of the chord.

[re simmers]

It's sometimes a little difficult to figure out the harmony notes just to start out on a song. There's sometimes different notes, even in the simplest 3-chord songs that can trip you up, 6th notes, 9th notes, etc.

Get some Album Band stuff to sing along with Doyle Lawson's tenor on those standards. It's tough to hear JD's baritone. But, you can sing along with Doyle's baritone on 'most' of Quicksilver's stuff. If Doyle's not singing lead, you can hear his baritone real well.

Once you can sing along with the harmony you can do exactly what Jordan said when you run into melody notes that you can't figure out the harmony for...........go a 3rd note above for tenor or the 5th below for baritone..........unless Ralph Stanley is singing lead............you'll have a low tenor (3rd) below the lead and baritone on the 5th below the lead.

Next step would be to get the Nashville Bluegrass Band's Harmony Singing video, now on DVD........get it now, it's great. I wore out the VHS tape.

Bob

[wamjr52]

Thanks, Jordan and RE, In the example for the bass, singing a song in the key of "G" the bass will always be the root and therefore "G" on the doghouse. And the baritone and the tenor are based on where the lead is, then going two up or two down respectively. Have I got it? If so then I understand it. TX Al Jr

[Jim Broyles]

Sort of, but don't try to wrap it up and tie a bow on it. The bass can move ("walk" just like a string bass) and sing melody at times, plus, it will hit the 5th a lot as well as the root. Basically, never say "always" in music.

[Jordan Ramsey]

Jim is right, it's hard to wrap all this up into a paragraph, and even harder to generalize when it comes to music. You have the right ideal, but you don't always go "up two" or "down two" (scale steps is what we're talking about here, I believe). The interval depends on what note you're on in the chord. You have to learn the notes of the chords to figure out how many steps you need to go up or down. Example, if we're in the key of G, and the lead (melody) part is singing a B, the tenor would be a D (up two), and the baritone would be a G (down two). If the melody is a D, the tenor would be a G (up three), and the baritone would be a B (down two). If the melody is a G, the tenor would be a B (up two), and the baritone would be a D (down three). This is a generalization and will not always be correct. Regardless, this system will only be effective when you learn the notes of the chords, learn where those notes are on your instrument, and are able to accurately match those pitches with your voice. The other approach is to listen a lot and emulate. If the first method doesn't make sense, take Bob's advice and sing along with recordings and find someone that can help you in person.

[re simmers]

The 3 intervals are 'basically' it with harmony. Bass is more of a matter of interpretation. Listen to Jay Forbes on the Forbes Family stuff and that is the best and most clearly heard bass singing. Jay sings the "chords' and nothing fancy. The bass will often be on someone else's note, but an octave lower most of the time.

In my experience it is very difficult to get harmony if you can't hear it in your head. Get the Brown's Ferry Four stuff to hear the basic harmony that seldom strays, and you can hear all parts. Also, the Hee Haw Quartet----don't laugh, they were good. Grandpa Jones is in both groups.

If you really like good harmony for entertainment, get the Blind Boys of Alabama. It's advanced. They switch parts, sing flatted 7ths and all kinds of cool stuff. Not grass, but man are they good.

Bob

[Zako]

I know this topic isn't mandolin-related per se, but I do think that vocal harmony is a integral part of a mandolinist's arsenal and performance value. That's especially true for those of us whose voices aren't good enough to take the spotlight but still want to help out. As a person who has struggled to hear harmony but can't quite get it right, I think we need more of this stuff because I can't find much practical info on the web, and everyone I've talked to says that "you either hear it or you don't," an opinion I am starting to fear might be true. So if anybody knows any more tricks, keep it coming!

[ChrisStewart]

I think just because you don't hear it now does not mean you never will. It is something you can learn to do by doing it.

My band has been playing together for more than five years and I am just now beginning to hear when the harmony is good. Probably has as much to do with the individuals in my band being able to actually sing the notes (without being to far off).

We have never studied how to do it. Our technique is generally -"sing some other part that no one else is singing" but I just ordered the DVD so maybe we can improve on that.

We do not have anyone who can sing bass, I usually sing just above or below the lead and generally it is more monotone -keeping with the chord being played more than what note the lead is singing. I guess as you get more sophisticated you could embellish much more but that is our simple non-professional version.

[Willie Poole]

There are exceptions to what has been said....Sonny and Bob used a high lead and what they called a "second tenor" which is below the baritone voice...Most family harmonies try swapping parts also, one band I was in did this, I couldn`t get the low note singing the lead so I went up and grabbed the tenor and someone else grabbed the low lead note, now that takes practice...The Browns and also Ira and Charlie Louvin swapped parts a lot when they sang...I`ve have came to the conclusion that 90% of the people listening can`t tell what parts are being doubled up on anyway so we just worry about harmony on the last note of each line when we hold it a tad....sure thats cheating ...BUT...you do what you have to do....Willie

[Zako]

My harmony is limited to simple chord tones that I can both hear and sing, which turns out to be the ends of phrases and some in-between notes for which the harmony is easy for me to visualize. I generally can't harmonize anything unless I can imagine playing it. Also, though my voice is pretty deep into the baritone range, I can only figure out how to sing the less complicated tenor part.

[Jordan Ramsey]

There are exceptions to what has been said....Sonny and Bob used a high lead and what they called a "second tenor" which is below the baritone voice...

Yes, Sonny and Bobby would stack 2 below the lead, and this would become a signature of their sound, keeping Bobby's voice on top and out front. Even though it's a different way of stacking the harmony from the traditional method, it doesn't change the fact that the three notes in the harmony are almost always going to be the three chord tones. Back to the key of G (chord tones are G,B, and D), an example of the Osborne method....If Bobby is singing a high G as the lead, the baritone part would be the D below, and the low tenor (or second tenor) would be the B below that. You can also stack 2 above using a "high baritone"..... lead (melody) is singing a G, the tenor would be the B above, and the high baritone would be the D above that. The baritone is still a D note, it's just above the melody and the tenor instead of below the melody. Just like a low tenor will be the same note as the regular tenor, just an octave lower. Same notes of the chord, same notes of the parts, just a different way of stacking the harmony. Most groups do this to accommodate someone singing too high or too low in their range (or to keep a star vocalist out front in the mix, as in the Osborne's case).

[Willie Poole]

John Duffey was a great high baritone singer and filled in with other bands that had three part harmony and he would grab the high baritone part, and he could sing bass if you wanted him to, what a talent...Not many people with a range like he had....willie

[wamjr52]

This has turned out to be very informative, just what I needed personally, I am ordering the CDs that have been recommended, so I think that I will be able "learn" this. I will probably will never be as good as someone who can naturally "hear" their part, but I think I can get close. Someone mentioned that this was not mandolin related and the actual dicussion is not, but I find that finding the lead note very easy on the mandolin. And from what I have gleened here is that most of the time, once the hamony singers know where the lead is then, they will know where their parts are.

[re simmers]

Just a heads up:

I got out several CD's this evening and listened to some of the best harmony singing that I have....Doyle, Tony Rice, Paul Williams, Charlie Waller, Duffey, etc. My favorites mix it up quite a bit. When Russell Moore sang lead with Doyle Lawson, tenor and baritone were below Russell. Many times that's the way it was with Duffey. Also, Charlie Waller many times had a tenor and a high baritone, both above Charlie. And these groups switch parts in the chorus sometimes. Don't be discouraged by any of this. Just be aware and listen for it.

Bob

I'd say the Album Band, the Hee Haw Quartet and the Brown's Ferry Four would be the safest bet for staying with the traditional 3 part harmony throughout an entire song.........lead with tenor above and the baritone below.

[grassrootphilosopher]

This (http://www.harmonybyear.com/Harmony_..._Way_Home.html) is probably the best instruction material to get any newbie (intermediate singers too) to sing good harmony.

The approach is to allways follow the lead singer. You´ll learn that a harmony singer ought not to think about the harmony line as a line but to allways concentrate on the next note that the lead singer will sing.

Whatever voicings you may want to put together, this approach will allways work.

You will learn to put your voice above or below the lead singers voice as well as how to figure out the appropriate interval the harmony not ought to be in.

Basically the harmony notes to the note the lead singer sings are the notes that fill out the chord that you play at that moment. (If in G and the lead singer sings a G then the tenor would sing the Bb while the baritone is on the D.) The basics are touched in the Bluegrass Songbook by Pete Wernick (from 1978 if I´m not mistaken, still in print and a nice book with a nice "basic" discography)

[Mike Snyder]

Listen to alot of ABBA and 3 Dog Night. smilieface

[Satchel]

Listen to the Lonesome River Band during the era of Dan Tyminski and Ronnie Bowman. Those two had a great blend and I believe that is some of the finest examples of switching from lead to tenor.

[CES]

The 3 intervals are 'basically' it with harmony. Bass is more of a matter of interpretation. Listen to Jay Forbes on the Forbes Family stuff and that is the best and most clearly heard bass singing. Jay sings the "chords' and nothing fancy. The bass will often be on someone else's note, but an octave lower most of the time.

In my experience it is very difficult to get harmony if you can't hear it in your head. Get the Brown's Ferry Four stuff to hear the basic harmony that seldom strays, and you can hear all parts. Also, the Hee Haw Quartet----don't laugh, they were good. Grandpa Jones is in both groups.

If you really like good harmony for entertainment, get the Blind Boys of Alabama. It's advanced. They switch parts, sing flatted 7ths and all kinds of cool stuff. Not grass, but man are they good.

Bob

Agree with both points regarding the Hee Haw quartet and the Blind Boys...also, the Fairfield Four does some nice work...

[GVD]

...(If in G and the lead singer sings a G then the tenor would sing the Bb while the baritone is on the D.)

The tenor should sing a B not a Bb (G chord tones are G B D).

[grassrootphilosopher]

The tenor should sing a B not a Bb (G chord tones are G B D).

Right you are! This comes from messing with people for whom H is B and B is Bb (in Germany). Talk to them a lot and you get your head spinning.

[Zako]

Not to hijack or anything, but does anyone have a short list of essential tips for untrained singers?

[re simmers]

http://a2z-singing-tips.com/freesing...lelegault.html

This is one of many free sites I found when I googled essential tips for vocalists.

I would recommend calling a music store & take about 3 lessons.......then you will want more if they're good.

My one tip for bluegrass singers: sing within your range......is your speaking voice like Del McCoury or Doc Watson? There's 2 great singers who sing within their speaking voice.

If you sing Blue Night comfortably in the key of G, don't let other pickers talk you into "B" because "that's where it's done."

Bob

[Jim Broyles]

Yeah, but sometimes the range within the song works better in a higher key. I usually have to bring songs down to G to sing lead, but for "Think of What You've Done" I do it in B and it is very comfortable. I do "Love Me Darlin' Just Tonight" perfectly in G, but I need the other one in B. G is too low. I can't do "In the Gravel Yard" in B, like Blue Highway, though.

[Jon Hall]

Several years ago I was asking the same questions and not making a lot of progress until I got the "Learn to Sing Harmony", by Marcy Marxer and Cathy Fink, from Homespun. I had to follow their instructions; learning the melodies, listening to the left and right tracks separately, singing along while driving, etc. but within a summer I had learned to sing harmony to most of the old time/folk music I was interested in.