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Thread: Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

  1. #1

    Default Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

    Dear Pickers,
    New member here and I've got a possibly unique question for you. I'm a professional bassist down in here in Austin and have gotten some gigs lately where I've needed to double on mandolin. I've squeaked by but have also been bitten by the mando bug...I'd like to learn to play it well. So, has anyone ever heard of stringing a mandolin so that you can play it in fourths, like my bass and my guitar are tuned? I imagine that once you had an idea of which gage of string would work you could improvise using guitar strings as mandolin strings, bazouki, lute...any ideas would be very welcome and gratefully received.
    Thanks,
    BlueSean

  2. #2
    mandolin slinger Steve Ostrander's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

    You would have to transpose all mandolin tabs and figure out your own chord charts. Sounds like a lot of hassle to me. Why not just learn to play it as strung in fifths? I played gtr and bass before mando and it really wasn't that difficult to crossover to mando.

  3. #3
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

    the merits of 5th tuning is having so much shorter scale you have a 2 octave range with out shifting up the neck.

    it just lays in your hand right .

    and [if you read standard notation] you can borrow scores from the Violin section to play.
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    Registered User Mark Levesque's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

    Studio guitar ace Tommy Tedesco used a guitar tuning (EBGD) for mandolin with the string gauges .009, .012, .017 and .024. I think you could do .11,.13,.18 and .24 for a slightly thicker sound.
    Here's a page from Tedesco's book where he shows his tunings.

    However, it's much easier to finger the mandolin in mandolin tuning. Also, the chords in mandolin tuning sound great and the low G string is necessary for the percussive flavor of the mandolin sound............I'm sure you will eventually want to learn mandolin tuning
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

    That would be correct, except that most of us are used to naming strings from low to high, i.e. DGBE.

  6. #6
    Registered User Mark Levesque's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

    Actually, I originally wrote the post DGBE, but then I realized that I had listed the gauges from high to low.

    You're right Mike, I should have changed the gauge order instead of the string order......................geez, this stuff is complicated!

    What order do you list your gauges if someone should ask you??
    Mark Levesque and Judy Handler
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    Default Re: Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

    Play in front of a mirror and just make sure the guy in the mirror is playing the notes you would play on the bass.
    Bobby Bill

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    Default Re: Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

    It seems to me that doing that would limit what you could do with the mandolin without giving any great advantage in reduced learning. At first glance it might seem that with the same tuning you just simply switch straight across, but with the mandolin one finger covers two frets (because they're narrow) so well known tunes or licks have to be re-thought.
    In the band situation, what function will the mando be serving? I don't imagine it would mirror what you do now with the bass so you will be learning new parts anyway. I would think that it would be better to stay with the mando's standard tuning and work the strengths in that area. The fifths tuning seems to give a more logical layout on the fretboard so with your prior knowledge you'll pick it up in no time.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

    Thanks, Mark, for your informative reply! I imagine you're right about eventually wanting to learn the traditional tuning but, this way, I could literally hit the ground runnin' (or pickin', as it may be).
    Again, thanks!
    BlueSean

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    Default Re: Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

    Hmmm, a mandolin in fourths? Isn't that a Ukelele?

    Seriously, I play guitar and bass and it was the fact that mandos are tuned in fifths that attracted me to them (after experimenting with CGDACE tuning on guitar).

  11. #11

    Default Re: Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Levesque View Post
    Actually, I originally wrote the post DGBE, but then I realized that I had listed the gauges from high to low.

    You're right Mike, I should have changed the gauge order instead of the string order......................geez, this stuff is complicated!

    What order do you list your gauges if someone should ask you??
    Just a small point, I guess, no big deal. If someone asked me, no one has sofar, I suppose I'd just say heavy or medium, maybe I'd say that it's a trade secret!

  12. #12

    Default Re: Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

    This does not make sense usually its someone having to fill in on bass.must be nice to live some where there are so many bass players that they get stuck playing mando or guitar.

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    Registered User Jim MacDaniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

    Another option is the Bandurria, which has a slightly shorter scale than the mandolin, but has 6 courses of strings tuned in fourths -- that way you would have a mandolin-like sound in your familiar fourths tuning without sacrificing a decent range in first position.
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    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

    EADG pitches what you want ? or tuned G C F Bb ascending 4ths from G [top space on the Bass Clef]

    If EADG which E you want to have as your Low pitch ? lowest line on the treble clef, or lower,
    3rd space on the bass clef?

    the latter will be tough to pull off with a short 14" scale, the former
    maybe modeled after an extra light gage super slinky guitar set where G isn't wound on those
    sets and a wound .O24 for the E.
    since you will be asking them to start at a pitch that is like 2nd fret on the existing mandolin D string , typically a wound .024" or a .026".the higher strings would be a bit larger a couple thousandths ,as the pitch difference is 2 steps less , but the other 3 courses would be plain steel.

    maybe a candidate for an M6 gibson's half scale guitar with an A shaped body, and it's gold tone made replica.

    nah, Get a real Mandolin and take a few lessons , If Chris Hillman Can do well on both mandolin or Bass ,
    so can you.
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    formerly Philphool Phil Goodson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

    You could tune in fourths, ............... but it would just be so wrong. The muses and demons would be after you in no time! (It would be very sad)
    Phil

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    Registered User Cheryl Watson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

    If you really want to play the mandolin well, I'd say tune it to standard mandolin tuning. That Tommy Tedesco tuning is cool and depending on the style of music you are playing, it could sound really good. You could use that for now for gigs to get by and meanwhile, back at the ranch, learn how to play it in standard tuning.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

    I have played the guitar for 30+ years. Then about three months ago I got a chance to play mandolin with an old timey acoustic band with a weekly pub gig. With only a week before my first performance, I got a friend's mandolin and explored tunings that would allow me to sound like a mandolin and still be able to step in and start gigging right away. This is the tuning that I found, and it works great. From low to high: A (one step above standard tuning), D (standard), G (one step lower than standard), C (two steps below standard).

    I use standard medium gauge strings and it works great. Any lick you could play on bass you could play in this tuning, you just have to remember that the A string is the low string.

    This is a great tuning for playing in the keys of G, C, Am, or D (two finger open chords for all these).

    I think it is also easier on the instrument (less pressure on the top and neck), because the E and A strings are really really taut in standard tuning.

    I did have to figure out the chords on my own. But it was no big deal.

    I have been playing weekly for almost three months...and may be the only mandolinist with a regular paid gig in central PA.

  18. #18
    Registered User i-vibe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

    stringing in fourths......nah, i like to do it all in one setting. badoom-crash. i'll be here all week, ladies and germs.

    welcome to the board and mando playing, bluesean.

    i immediately thought of t tedesco too having read his old articles in Guitar Player of yesteryear. he tuned EVERYTHING in 'guitar tuning' so he could sightread anything that was put in front of him on the gazillion studio dates he worked.

    i suspect 90% of that stuff involved him playing some melody line and not much if any chording.

    as others have said it's not that hard to get your head around the different tuning and there are huge benefits to be gained from it.

    count me as another who went from bass, and gtr playing over to mando.

    of course if ya try the 4ths thing and like it....and no animals or small chillens are getting hurt.......
    just groove, baby!


    I still need your string labels!

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    Default Re: Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

    WHY would you? Fifths make so much more sense.

  20. #20
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

    They are tuned in 4ths , descending 4ths , that is is the inverse of Ascending 5ths..

    In other words, your circle of 5ths is a circle of 4ths if you go the other way around.

    OK in reality the note on the 5th fret is an octave higher than the open lower string .

    but GDAE and EADG are mirror images

    By the way at the tenor guitar gathering, here, I learned for tenor guitar
    DGBE is 'the Chicago tuning' ..

    Plectrum banjo players that grew up playing the guitar use Chicago tuning too.
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    Default Re: Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

    What about those Goldtone 6-string mandolins??? Perhaps that would solve your problems. Tuned;E,A,D,G,B,E. That way you'd have a dedicated instrument for the gig and you can still woodshed Fifths mandolin in your spare time.
    Tedesco is one of my Idols btw, I have his books but have you ever seen his Hot Licks video??? Just awesome.

  22. #22
    Registered User i-vibe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

    what i most remember about T.T. from those articles......he was one funny guy!
    just groove, baby!


    I still need your string labels!

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

    As a mandolinist, bassist, & classical guitarist, my question is ... WHY???

    Being tuned in 5ths makes the mandolin a superior instrument to the guitar and bass for learning, improvising, tuning ,etc.

  24. #24
    Professional Cat Herder Phil Vinyard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

    Just to add to the confusion: I've been pressed into service playing a bass before and quietly tuned it in fifths. Take the G up to an A, leave the D alone, take the A down to a G, and the E down to a C. Maybe you should just completely convert to the world of fifths...
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    Default Re: Stringing a Mandolin in Fourths

    4ths and 5ths are both perfect intervals, so I guess whichever suits your fancy is ok. I'll stick with 5ths.
    John Kasley
    Williamsburg, VA

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