Rubber Grommets for the Mandolin

[Tim2723]

There are several things that fall into the "vinyl" category that might come into contact with an instrument. The "rubber" coating on some wall hooks (might be used to hang a mandolin) is a type of vinyl. Anything with plasticizers in it can wreak havoc on some finishes. I received a guitar wrapped in bubble wrap a few years ago and even after cleaning and polishing you could see everywhere the bubble wrap came into contact with the finish. Fortunately I had not paid much for the guitar.

OK, that's what I was after. The plasticizers (commonly dioctylpthalate and dicotlysebecate) are volatile and can cause some problems certainly, but I wouldn't expect that too many products were made with the intention of prolonged contact. In the article above there was direct contact for long periods. I was left to wonder how long that player in the article left his capo on to cause the damage.

It seems to me that the culprit is the degree of exposure, rather than the Vinyl itself. Nevertheless, many rubber and plastic compounds use these same plasticizers, and should be avoided.

[Hal Loflin]

Just FYI...The total for the pack of grommets from McMasters is $8.34 once $4.80 UPS Ground shipping is added ($3.54 + $4.80). More for shipping than the actual product.

[MikeEdgerton]

The problem comes with prolonged contact, it might be hurried along by environmental factors as well. I'm sure that someone might be able to find the exact chemical that causes the reaction and I'm sure that there is a chance that all lacquers and all plastics might not react, the problem is that some do and there's no sense in taking a chance. The Martin mandolin I noted was from the 60's and I have no idea how long the strap had been there but the laquer finish had a perfect line that was just gone where the strap had been laying. The guitar that I was dealing with was a Red label yamaha from the late 60's as well. Perhaps we've advanced in the last 40 some years, I'm just not willing to be the test case.

[Scott Tichenor]

Will vinyl come in contact with an instrument? Will grommet pricing come under scrutiny and ultimately federal regulation? Will Soup1957 find the answer to his question?

Stay tuned for another exciting episode of, As The Grommet Turns!

[AlanN]

Just FYI...The total for the pack of grommets from McMasters is $8.34 once $4.80 UPS Ground shipping is added ($3.54 + $4.80). More for shipping than the actual product.

And isn't it better to go with a fellow mando-nerd for this type of thing than some anon. corporation? Even if you may be out a few cents. I think so.

[Mike Bromley]

Alright, that wasn't fair, now I have to clean off my keyboard and monitor and I got a little diet coke on the guys in the next cube.

Like vinyl in contact with nitrocellulose? Dintcha know that Aspartame is toxic?

And, nitrogen being as reactive as it is, and in compound with cellulose, makes a dandy explosive powder...for those smokers who at one time or another stuck a cigarette under their string and had it burn down to the NC, the popping and sizzling sounds were a bit unnerving.

[MikeEdgerton]

Unfortunately sugar is more toxic to me

[Charley wild]

Will vinyl come in contact with an instrument? Will grommet pricing come under scrutiny and ultimately federal regulation? Will Soup1957 find the answer to his question?

Stay tuned for another exciting episode of, As The Grommet Turns!

And will the thread diversion gremlins strike Soupy again?

Seriously, I've been aware of the bubble wrap problem for some time. And I'll take the advice of some on the thread if I ever buy an armrest. I'll use rubber grommets. Why take a chance? There's no huge expense involved.

[Mike Bunting]

I thought that Grommet was a muppet!

[Tim2723]

This will be third time I've linked to this article in this thread.

Sorry for that, but thanks for the effort. I keep forgetting that you have to mouse over the text to find the links. I don't know how put them in like that.

On second thought, I'm probably not the best person to comment on how NOT to damage a mandolin.

[MikeEdgerton]

...On second thought, I'm probably not the best person to comment on how NOT to damage a mandolin.

OK, that's twice in this thread. I have to go get another roll of paper towels.

[Tom C]

I just chew a piece of Bazooka Bubble gum and stick it on the strings. 10 cents total.

[JEStanek]

Gromit is a plasticine dog (not a Muppet) created by Nick Park. He plays a mean mandolin too.


Jamie

[Mike Bunting]

Gromit is a plasticine dog (not a Muppet) created by Nick Park. He plays a mean mandolin too.


Jamie

I stand corrected.

[barney 59]

There are several things that fall into the "vinyl" category that might come into contact with an instrument. The "rubber" coating on some wall hooks (might be used to hang a mandolin) is a type of vinyl. Anything with plasticizers in it can wreak havoc on some finishes. I received a guitar wrapped in bubble wrap a few years ago and even after cleaning and polishing you could see everywhere the bubble wrap came into contact with the finish. Fortunately I had not paid much for the guitar.

I've shipped instruments wrapped in bubble wrap and also received them as well. I've never had a problem or a complaint but I will modify my packageing I suppose now that I have a heads up.

[MikeEdgerton]

You may never have a problem but you might and that's why I now use a soft paper towel layer between the instrument and the vinyl wrap.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Howdya' do that Jamie ?? - those things intrigue me every time !.

I think that the 'worry' over all things vinyl around instruments, came from the Guitar world. I seem to remember either an article or a pic. at least, in Guitarist Magazine. It had to do with the rubber resting pads on Guitar stands.The pic.(which i certainly DID see),showed the removal of a patch of the finish on a Guitar neck which had been caused by reaction with a component within the vinyl pad. I immediately covered the pads on my stands with 1/4" thick felt (Aircraft grade !).
Anyway it seems the news spread & vinyl has been a 'suspect' material for a while now. Do instrument stand makers still use it,or have they changed to a 'safe' material ?.It would be interesting to know,as i can't imagine any stand maker selling a stand which is going to make mush out of a mega-buck Guitar,
Ivan

[mandroid]

Never mind the Rubber ones ... Cheese, Grommet ?

[DougC]

O.K. Now you've got me concerned - Mandolin Cafe consumer reports question here. Is my 'On Stage' brand guitar stand full of the bad stuff? Are my 'String Swing' instrument hangers all toxic? Yikes!


I think cork would be a great material for string dampening.

[Tim2723]

Well, if you're using those products for long-term display of your instruments - that is, that they've been in contact with them for prolonged periods - and have seen no problem, then there's probably little cause for concern. It also depends on the finish of your instruments.

Outside of the polymer testing laboratory, it's very difficult to tell exactly what might be in a 'rubber' material. The Vinyl plastics often, but not always, have a couple of telltale characteristics. They are often smooth and glossy, they can have a thin oily surface film that never really seems to wipe away, and, if very new, can have a distinct odor. The plasticizers used to make them soft and pliable evaporate out of the plastic over time. They are what gives the 'new car smell' to an automobile's interior.

Remember that the problem cases center around instruments with delicate, traditional finishes, and involve things like plastic guitar straps from the 60's and Bubble Pack that is used as a general purpose packaging material for everything under the sun. The music world seems to be aware of the problem, so I would think (or at least like to think) that modern manufactures are sensitive to the issue. But I still wouldn't bet a valuable instrument on it.

And given that there are reports of varnish being disturbed even by things like cork, it would suggest that chemical interaction is not always the culprit. It appears that varnish can be harmed by a lot of things under the right circumstances, excessive pressure being suspect. This is why I question some of the observations in the cited article.

[DougC]

And given that there are many reports of varnish being disturbed even by cork, it would suggest that chemical interaction is not always the culprit. It appears that varnish can be harmed by a lot of things under the right circumstances, excessive pressure being suspect. This is why I question some of the observations in the cited article.

I agree that pressure and heat are the big concerns. I repair violins and most of the damage to the finish is from the clamp that holds the chin rest to the instrument. It's the same device as mandolin arm rests and under the clamp part that touches the instrument is cork, sometimes felt on older instruments. The pressure from the clamp damages the finish. The felt is sometimes imbeded into the finish from too much pressure.

[JEStanek]

Howdya' do that Jamie ?? - those things intrigue me every time !.

Photoshop. That's a particularly famous mandolin he's got his paws on too.

Gromit says the best cheese grommets come from the moon. It's a Grand Day Out if you want to get some. Wallace has invented a new Back Plate Gaurd (Tone Guard is a liscensed product) out of old knitting needles. Preston does the bending and Shaun provides the woollen pads. You can get those at Wendolene's Yarn Shop for £40.

Jamie

[Ole Joe Clark]

If you think this thread is nuts, you should read the one on the Martin forum (UMGF) in the technical section about plastic binding on guitars.

[CES]

On second thought, I'm probably not the best person to comment on how NOT to damage a mandolin.

[gregjones]

Never mind the Rubber ones ... Cheese, Grommet ?

I usually understand. This time you're just gonna have to color me stupid.

Maybe, if I spent more time in the shadow of a volcano.......