Affordable mandolins for the playing professional

[RustyMadd]

Oh, I already have performed for several years on stage with the 520 and it is wonderfully made and quite playable and affordable. It's just that it feels like I have to whip it into submission to get it to play sweetly, then hold a chair and whip on it to stay sweet! :-)

[RustyMadd]

No doubt you are right on that. I am a professional level guitarist with some very inspiring guitars. I understand the needs of the pro and amateur. It is more about the feeling you get back through your arms and solar plexus from the response in the instrument. The way it speaks back to your mechanics in such a cooperative way.

I know I LOVE the mandolin above all else and therefore wish to get on with builing a special relationship between a great instrument, my music, and my creative needs.

[mandroid]

Tax day being upon US, how much did you get to deduct for your business expenses
as a Professional musician?

Including , I assume, some depreciation on your gear ..

And, do gear costs of Church playing get put in as 'in kind' monetary contributions to your church?

[Br1ck]

If you shop used, there are many fine mandolins of the A style in the $1200-1500 range. Ratliff, Silverangel, Rigel, Weber, Summit, Northfield, just to name a few. Even perhaps an old Gibson.

You do have to go on faith if you aren't in a major metro area. You're buying used, so you can do the catch and release method until you find the one.

[Tate Ferguson]

The older I get, the less difference I feel between cheap and nice instruments.

When I'm out of practice, out of sorts, tired, I sound like s__t on any instrument.

When I'm motivated, happy, energetic, I can make anything sound good.

It almost doesn't matter any more. I just want to get my musical point across. People dig my sound or not, regardless of what I play.

[billkilpatrick]

The older I get, the less difference I feel between cheap and nice instruments.

When I'm out of practice, out of sorts, tired, I sound like s__t on any instrument.

When I'm motivated, happy, energetic, I can make anything sound good.

It almost doesn't matter any more. I just want to get my musical point across. People dig my sound or not, regardless of what I play.

Wise ... Imagine Bill Monroe or any other biggie not playing mandolin because he didn't own a "professional," peer-approved instrument.

[Tom Haywood]

The problem, as I see it, is that it does boil down to an individual instrument in the setting in which you intend to play it. That means you've got to find a way to play some mandolins with your band or whatever your professional situation is, and choose one that speaks to you in that setting. Shopping by brand name is a crap shoot IMO.

[Mark Wilson]

Is anyone going to answer the actual question posted clearly in the title? Please?

By the title I thought it was gonna be a list of'em

[FLATROCK HILL]

Is anyone going to answer the actual question posted clearly in the title? Please?

The "actual question" was given an 'actual answer'...first response by OldSausage some eight years ago.

[billkilpatrick]

"Professional" chewing gum ...

[Jack Roberts]

"If you're ever gonna be anything, you have to act like you're already something. You have to have good instruments and pretty nice clothing, and the rest of it'll take care of itself if you have any talent."
--Charlie Louvin

(too bad I found out I don't have any talent after getting the good instruments and nice clothing.)

[RustyMadd]

I wanted to thank all of you for responding with some provacative remarks. I have to say you got me thinking so much about the subject that I started thinking about sending it into a good luthier to set up, since it really never had a decent set up done from the start.

So I started sanding the sealant coatings off the wood- how else will it ever open and age properly? I am a craftsman myself and decided to do a set up myself, provided the neck and frets are level.....the bridge is crap, so I modified it and will replace it asap....the action is good now and response is much better....

I am very grateful to you all for your comments and suggestions, as I am sure others, finding this thread, will be in the future.

My Loar 520vs is actually pretty sweet now, not a Weber, Northfield, nor Gilchrist, but getting so much better I anticipate a boost in my musicianship.


One last question, sort of off the subject.....What do you think of deer antler bridges vs Cumberland Acoustics bridges?
I know after modifying and fitting the bridge to the top that the bridge supplied with the Loar is really sub par.

Thank you all.

[billkilpatrick]

I wanted to thank all of you for responding with some provacative remarks. I have to say you got me thinking so much about the subject that I started thinking about sending it into a good luthier to set up, since it really never had a decent set up done from the start.

So I started sanding the sealant coatings off the wood- how else will it ever open and age properly? I am a craftsman myself and decided to do a set up myself, provided the neck and frets are level.....the bridge is crap, so I modified it and will replace it asap....the action is good now and response is much better....

I am very grateful to you all for your comments and suggestions, as I am sure others, finding this thread, will be in the future.

My Loar 520vs is actually pretty sweet now, not a Weber, Northfield, nor Gilchrist, but getting so much better I anticipate a boost in my musicianship.


One last question, sort of off the subject.....What do you think of deer antler bridges vs Cumberland Acoustics bridges?
I know after modifying and fitting the bridge to the top that the bridge supplied with the Loar is really sub par.

Thank you all.

Rusty - After replacing the bridge on my Loar with one from Cumberland, the whole tone "horizon," for the want of a better word, seemed to open out - the "A" string in particular. Currently following a thread which questions whether we can really hear what we think we hear, but after putting on a Cumberland bridge, the change in tone was noticed immediately.

Hope your revarnishing works out - the idea terrifies me - glad you're sticking to your present mandolin.

- Bill

[RustyMadd]

Whoa! Sorry Mandroid, I just meant I've performed on stage, for benefits, for churches, and the like. I already said I'm nothing special.

I did do many other things as well, but again, I am no one.

[RustyMadd]

https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/m...billkilpatrick
Thanks Bill, I cannot believe the difference in tone squaring up the bridge and sanding it to the curvature of the top made in the lower mids. Wow, I can't wait to get a Cumberland Acoustics bridge on it.

I also bought a Blue Chip and find it crisp, almost frictionless, and musical. I am excited at how comfortable and loud it is getting. With a pro setup and a CA bridge, who knows, I just might be happy after all.

Yes, music is in the musician, and groove is in the heart, but a craftsman is only as good as his tools. And a musician should seek the best instrument for the task.

Peace, love, and joy in abundance good people.

[Charlie Bernstein]

Thanks for this post and all the responses! As a long-time guit-picker new to mando, I've been playing a flattop for a little while. I've gigged with it once so far, and though my chops are rudimentary, it was well received. Though I like the flattop a lot, it's not very loud, and the mids are especially weak. So I've been thinking about getting a used A-style mando, American or Canadian and solid-wood (same as the flattop).

The stories about good under-$1k are nice to hear. I might go a little over that, but it would be great to go under. And there are a few posts in the classifieds here and on Craigslist that fill the bill.

The comment about how amplified instruments all sound pretty much the same is right on the money. I don't gig that often, anyway, but I do want something that can be heard at jams and - more sonically challenging - busking. So my next mando has to have a big bark and juicy bite.

Mando Cafe is pointing the way!

[RustyMadd]

The older I get, the less difference I feel between cheap and nice instruments.

When I'm out of practice, out of sorts, tired, I sound like s__t on any instrument.

When I'm motivated, happy, energetic, I can make anything sound good.

It almost doesn't matter any more. I just want to get my musical point across. People dig my sound or not, regardless of what I play.

No offense, but I'm calling bullpucky on this statement. I am so weary of hearing hot air exchanged for thoughtful advice. The instrument matters, always did, always will. A musician ain't nothing but a drummer without an instrument that is cooperative and musical. The more they embody those two qualities, the more inspiring it is to your creativity.

Why do you wax so pompous wasting valuable bandwidth? That is a rhetorical question, so please don't feel compelled to answer it, there is enough noise sprinkled throughout this thread. Peace.

[mandroid]

seems like a 2 fer , offers the opportunity to have some one in the wings

swapping and handing you a tuned mandolin between songs..

2 real Loars ? that probably means just one..

[Br1ck]

Thanks for this post and all the responses! As a long-time guit-picker new to mando, I've been playing a flattop for a little while. I've gigged with it once so far, and though my chops are rudimentary, it was well received. Though I like the flattop a lot, it's not very loud, and the mids are especially weak. So I've been thinking about getting a used A-style mando, American or Canadian and solid-wood (same as the flattop).

The stories about good under-$1k are nice to hear. I might go a little over that, but it would be great to go under. And there are a few posts in the classifieds here and on Craigslist that fill the bill.

The comment about how amplified instruments all sound pretty much the same is right on the money. I don't gig that often, anyway, but I do want something that can be heard at jams and - more sonically challenging - busking. So my next mando has to have a big bark and juicy bite.

Mando Cafe is pointing the way!

I'm sure you could find a good mandolin for $1000, but in my obsessive perusal of the classifieds, I find way more of interest in the $1200-1800 range. That is where it would be very hard to go wrong.

[Kris N]

No offense, but I'm calling bullpucky on this statement. I am so weary of hearing hot air exchanged for thoughtful advice. The instrument matters, always did, always will. A musician ain't nothing but a drummer without an instrument that is cooperative and musical. The more they embody those two qualities, the more inspiring it is to your creativity.

Why do you wax so pompous wasting valuable bandwidth? That is a rhetorical question, so please don't feel compelled to answer it, there is enough noise sprinkled throughout this thread. Peace.

I'm pretty sure you add the noise by posting this, Rusty. T-E-F's post was actually a good argument that any instrument can be used professionally. If you disagree, state that, but don't be unnecessarily harsh. Everyone has the freedom to post. We're all here for the same reason - to learn and grow.

To some small extent, I agree with you, Rusty. A cooperative and musical instrument can make it easier to be creative. However, the majority of the professional musicians you hear aren't creative only because their instruments are high end. They are creative because they are talented, the music was in them, yada, yada. I'm sure most were discovered when using low end instruments. A lower end instrument can just be as cooperative and musical as the higher end. It's all about the musician playing it. Yes, a craftsman is only as good as his tools, but a professional craftsman knows how to use any quality of tool set in front of him as well. If he can't, you might as well remove the word professional.

Some people just can't afford higher end instruments and shouldn't worry that they don't have the best $10,000 mandolin. Thats mostly what T-E-F was getting at. Like the professional musicians before us, before they were famous, you make due with what you have. If you can afford it, by all means go for it. If you can't, don't sweat it.

[Mr5150]

To some small extent, I agree with you, Rusty. A cooperative and musical instrument can make it easier to be creative. However, the majority of the professional musicians you hear aren't creative only because their instruments are high end. They are creative because they are talented, the music was in them, yada, yada. I'm sure most were discovered when using low end instruments. A lower end instrument can just be as cooperative and musical as the higher end. It's all about the musician playing it. Yes, a craftsman is only as good as his tools, but a professional craftsman knows how to use any quality of tool set in front of him as well. If he can't, you might as well remove the word professional.

Some people just can't afford higher end instruments and shouldn't worry that they don't have the best $10,000 mandolin. Thats mostly what T-E-F was getting at. Like the professional musicians before us, before they were famous, you make due with what you have. If you can afford it, by all means go for it. If you can't, don't sweat it.

As a mandolin player I am an advanced beginner. As a flute and sax player Not so much. 45 years on the flute and 20 on the alto sax. I can assure that if given a student level sax or flute made by a good company will not decrease my ability to play anything as well compared to my pro level instruments. Tone isn't everything. I see no reason why this comparison would not also apply to mandolins.

[Mr5150]

My 520 is inadequate in terms of bass and lower mid response...great bak and playability, but not the finest sound.




Blessings.

Well OK, it is poor form to knock a musician's instrument. But since I found your post on the previous page, I'll speak my mind. When I retired, I thought it would fun to take up a third instrument. Mandolin and never looked back! Fun. So I bought semi-blind based on internet reviews in the $500 price range. Got the Loar 520. After a few months I perceived that while the build was good, it sounded cheap and felt clumsy in my hands. I expressed my concerns to Mrs5150 and she said fine, but please research and wait until Christmas. Had the opportunity to visit the Mandolin Store where I demoed some Eastmans and Kentuckys.

Loved the Eastman 815 and the Kentucky 1050. Really liked the Eastman 515. Went with the Eastman 515 as $700 less is some real money. Oh gosh, the 515 sounds so much better than my old 520 and after a month the playability for me was way better than on the Loar 520. Sold the Loar.

Just my experience.

[MontanaMatt]

In my opinion, having good gear adds a level of comfort and confidence that benefits the music. I suppose if you had a pro race car driver race around the track in a run down minivan, they would probably impress you with their lap times, but ask them if they'd prefer an actual race car, pretty solid answer of yes, Ferrari please.
Also having nice gear places all responsibility for quality sound on the musician, without an excuse. I seldom relinquish control to a sound guy, that way it's always our fault.
My band's Banjo player just upgraded to an American made Banjo, and he had a new glow about himself. He could play great on his goldtone, but it just wasn't completely right. I admitted to him that I always had a negative opinion of his old Banjo, and he agreed and said I should have said something earlier. In addition to better sound quality, the esthetic of nice instruments is noticeable, and image is part of the product(it keeps people from looking at my face and body!)
If your going to make a living as a performer there is little excuse to not invest in your craft. The federal tax code incentivized this practice with deductions. The nation is behind you, spend more on a your gear and make great music.

[Dagger Gordon]

It's true to say that a good player will make a cheap instrument sound better, but it's still a cheap instrument!
By which I mean thin tone, poor volume, questionable intonation, always going out of tune etc etc.

The flip side is that a very good player has the skills to bring out the best in a top level instrument. You won't often see a good classical guitarist performing on a student model, for instance, and there is a reason for that.

Same with mandolins. You do need a certain level of instrument. It doesn't need to be the very best, but it does need to be pretty good.
Then there are other factors which are important, like the need to withstand the rigours of the road, not necessarily wanting a $20,000 instrument lying around at a bar gig, and the need to be easily amplified or miked up on stage.
That's why you might see guitarists playing a Takamine and leaving the Martin at home,etc.

But having a good instrument DOES make a difference- of course it does.

[allenhopkins]

...I did do many other things as well, but again, I am no one.

Hey, c'mon, everybody's someone!

If you've played at all, even if only in your rec room, you've done something creative. And if a better mandolin helps your creativity, that's a positive.

There just aren't easy answers to the thread's basic question. I watched Cathy Fink once play perfectly listenable clawhammer on a banjo made from a Quaker Oats cardboard carton. You can look at the miscellaneous heterogeneous "instruments" that some of the traditional musicians had to play, and wonder how they made such enduring music.

I watched once a band of college students called Grey Eagle, which featured Matt Glaser when he was studying violin/fiddle at the Eastman School here. The mandolin player -- never knew his name -- played some superb cross-picking on an $89.95 Harmony Monterey. I had a '20's F-2 then, and felt like donating it to him, since he could make better use of it than I.

Glad I didn't, though.