bluegrass to classical mandolin

[mezamurillo]

I have a weber bitteroot which i use for bluegrass. I now would like to play classical mandolin music and need a different type of mandolin. I was wondering about the eastman 504 or the 514. could anyone recommend a mandolin for classical maybe under $1500.00. any suggestions on what should I buy, I need a sweet tone.

[Jim Garber]

Unless you hate the tone of your Bitterroot there is really no reason why you need a different mandolin to play classical. The only other reason would be that some more difficult pieces are more accessible and playable with a shorter scale (13 inch). Also, there is a wide range of what constitutes a classical mandolin. Are those Eastmans oval holes? You may like the tone better ... or not.

Unless, of course, you are just looking for a way to satisfy your MAS.

[mezamurillo]

yes the mandolins have the oval hole, does that make a difference in tone, maybe a softer tone

[Daniel Nestlerode]

Loar designed the F5 for classical music --just as Orville Gibson designed the A series for classical music-- so your Bitteroot can handle it too. FWIW, when Thile plays classical pieces he doesn't switch mandolins. And the real difference between Evan Marshall's Gilchrist and an F5 is that it is braced lightly allowing Marshall to use lighter strings to get a softer, sweeter tone.

But if you're having MAS, well then, don't let us stop you!

Daniel

[Ken_P]

It depends what kind of classical music you want to play. I think my Collings sounds better for Bach than it does for Bluegrass (that also has to do with the way I play, but still). I had an Eastman 515 that was great for violin transcriptions too. I find that for classical music, playability is the key. If you can get to all the notes easily, you can make it sound good.

[JeffD]

The eastern european stuff sounds best on my martin bowlback, while the old timey sounds best on my weber. The gibson can do it all. Perhaps what I really want is a separate mandolin for each tune.

[Spencer]

Will you play with a group? Our local mandolin orchestra gave a concert recently, and they all played bowl-back mandolins. I didn't think a bluegrass tone would have fit with those instruments, but I might be mistaken as I didn't actually hear that. For your own playing it doesn't matter, but I prefer my round hole for something in the classical vein.

Spencer

[JeffD]

when Thile plays classical pieces he doesn't switch mandolins.

You have all seen this but here it is again.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSZ40V0teGM

[tictac]

I have to agree with all of the above posters; what you hope to achieve is what's important in regards to performance practice. Modern classical musicians do not change instruments when performing baroque, and pre-baroque works. Granted, some musicians play instruments of baroque (and pre-baroque) origin (I'm one of them), but that's an entirely different subject.

If your desire is just to play classical works there's no need to change instruments (unless MAS is afoot). If you wish to indulge yourself fully in performance practice then there's the possibility for instrument change, but then you'd almost be looking for an instrument much closer to the lute than to the mandolin.

As someone who went to school for performance degrees on a baroque instrument I can tell you in PAINS me to hear Bach played on a piano, however it is the reality of today's music study, so it is something I accept. There's MUCH to be gained by playing these classic works on modern instruments, so unless you've got cash to burn there's really no reason to acquire another instrument for the sole purpose of classical study. If the differences were as drastic as Telecaster vs. Classical Guitar then the story would be different, but thankfully they aren't. Study of these pieces has the potential to reveal aspects of your playing you might otherwise never notice, not to mention the myriad of other benefits too numerous to mention in a post.

There have been books written on this subject, and I'm boiling it down to a point that's much too simple. The comment above about playability is the key- if you feel you CAN'T play the lit on your current instrument then maybe it's time for another, but if you can then you should. Do it, and enjoy every single minute of it. For more scholarly commentary on the subject the faculty at Oberlin Conservatory, or another university with a strong baroque faculty are good contacts.

To sum up:

Playability, playability, playability.

enjoy, enjoy, enjoy.

oh yeah, enjoy.

[Tim2723]

While it's perfectly true that the arch-top instruments were designed long before the advent of Bluegrass and were used for classical music, there's no denying that a bowlback has a unique character all it's own. When I think Vivaldi, I think bowlback.

[lenf12]

Try a set of Tomastik Infeld strings before you spend $1500 on another mandolin. Your current mando may sound just fine for classical.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Greg H.]

I must concur with the previous posters here. Your existing mandolin should do just fine (or to put it another way, Mike Marshal and Chris Thiles mandolins haven't seemed worse when used for classical).

[Capt. E]

I was just going to say how Thiles' Dude sounds great no matter what he plays.

[violmando]

I'm in the Dayton Mandolin Orchestra and we have at least 3 Webers in the group, including an Octar in our mandola section. I do believe at least one uses Thomastik strings, however. The vast majority of our group play vintage Gibsons. but we also have at least 2 Eastmans. It depends how serious your going to be about SOLO playing, I suppose, and if you're getting in a group, if they have any demands. We did an exchange concert with the Kalamazoo Mandolin and Guitar Orchestra and they were also a mix of instruments. The only bowlback they had were a few of the new Eastmans, but they also had plenty of vintage Gibsons and Webers and the like. I think it's more a matter of setup, strings and the STYLE of playing you do...your pick will also determine some of that, too. You might try Marilynn Mair's method and read up what she says about that.
Yvonne

[violmando]

I also meant to say that I've been to AMGUSS (the American Mandolin & Guitar Summer School) a few times and there are VERY few bowl backs there even though we are primarily studying Classical music. I think the fact that most are older and delicate is partially a factor; modern archtops produce more sound for ensembles. Whether the new Eastmans catch on, I don't know...I thought they were OK when I saw them in Kalamazoo, but I'm a mandocellist.

[Lee]

Wow, if the OP can squeeze together just a little more cash, there have been a few phenomenally priced Phoenix neo-Classicals in the Classifieds recently.

[pops1]

If you must......
Pomeroy has a new flat top in the classifieds that would have more sustain and clear sound than an arch for $500 less than you want to spend. I say let the MAS go!!!!!!

Now that i've got that over with try different gauges and material of picks as that can change your sound more than almost anything. Also as was mentioned softer strings.

Has anyone said have fun and don't worry about it, it's all about playing music, playing music, fun fun fun fun, playing music, playing music, fun fun fun, playing music, playing music, fun fun fun,.....well you get the idea.

[MT_player]

If you're just beginning to learn classical mandolin why not use what you've got? Mike Marshall uses his Gibson for everything from 'grass to choro to classical and everything in between. In fact the only time I've seen him put the Gibson down is when he's reaching for a mandola, mandocello, guitar, fiddle, or any other of the dozen instruments that cat can play. Also, the late great Butch Baldassari has an album of classical duets with John Carlini which is marvelous. You can find it on iTunes

[Wolfboy]

Also, the late great Butch Baldassari has an album of classical duets with John Carlini which is marvelous. You can find it on iTunes

Just a clarification: it sounds like you're referring to the album "Cantabile", which is indeed an album of classical guitar and mandolin duets, but with John Mock, not John Carlini. Butch's album with John Carlini was called "Reflections" and was pretty varied stylistically but didn't have much classical repertoire. Both albums are beautiful, as is everything else Butch did, and are available not only on iTunes but on CDBaby and Butch's own label, SoundArt Recordings. http://www.soundartrecordings.com/

Getting back to the original question, Butch played his '25 Gibson F5 (the "unsigned Loar") and his '95 Gilchrist on "Cantabile" - the same mandolins he played on pretty much everything else he did, and they work perfectly for classical.

[Dave Cohen]

Before you spend a lot of money on a mandolin, or even a modest amount of money on strings like Thomastiks, spend a small amount of money on some picks. Look for some picks with a sharp point, or reshape them to have a sharp point and smooth the edges with a very fine abrasive. Also, some classical players prefer a somewhat flexible pick, as opposed to the very thick ones preferred by bluegrass players. The pick accounts for the single biggest difference in sound between what you hear from classical players and what you hear from players of all other musical genres.

http://www.Cohenmando.com