How do you get better at the mandolin?

[Charlie Bernstein]

You get better by playing.

So just play.

One of many nice things about mandos is that you can wear it around the house. It's hard to go room to room and up and down stairs with a guitar without bumping into things. And a keyboard has to pretty much stay in one place. You can actually cook with a mando around your neck.

It's also not as loud as a horn, fiddle, banjo, or acoustic guitar, so practicing isn't as annoying to people you live with or near. I can play my mando in the bedroom while my wife is right in the next room in her office.

And a mando in a case is easy to walk down the street with or take on a bus, train, or subway.

So there are a lot fewer barriers to playing than with most instruments.

Now let's get to that picking-with-others question:

You just have to keep looking. I'm on Craigslist all the time finding people to play with.

The best people to play with are:

- people your own level.
- people who play better but like playing with you and showing you stuff.

Open mics are, as a rule, horrible, but occasionally you'll find one that's newbie-friendly. They also change. There's one in my town that used to be a complete waste of time but, under new management, is a lot of fun.

But don't underestimate the value of playing along with recordings at home. Want to jam with Dave Grisman? Pop in a CD. And don't just jam with mando players. I especially like playing mando along with a lot of acoustic blues and folk guitarists. Thanks to the miracle of modern electriconics, I've can jam with Memphis Minnie, John Hurt, Fred McDowell, Sonny and Terry, Gary Davis, Robert Johnson, Dave Van Ronk, and a lot more.

[DavidKOS]

Many people get their panties in a wad if you say I practice the mandolin...they say "I play" the mandolin.

Ignore them and practice anyway.

We all "play" our instruments, as the term goes, but practice is the only way to actually improve.

[farmerjones]

I know God killed a kitten because of this Zombie thread, but it's really nice looking back through all the names you don't see on here much any more.

How does one get better at playing Mandolin? I don't know. But find out how you learn, personally. Then one can apply that to most anything.

[farmerjones]

Ignore them and practice anyway.

We all "play" our instruments, as the term goes, but practice is the only way to actually improve.

Yes, and then get to know the difference between learning/developing, practice and rehearsal.

[J-45er]

All good advice above.

How about time and patience?

Don't over practice. Don't practice if you are tired. Stop practicing if you get tired. A bassist once told me he practiced 10 hours a day. (I think he was afraid they would throw him out of his weekend/hobby jazz group if he made one mistake.)

Stay out of a rut. Practice a variety of mandolin genres and styles. Take the effort to learn standard music notation. Get and practice music that isn't tablatured.

Don't rush yourself. There will be gradual improvement over time.

[gtani7]

Enough advice for you?

I'd say you get better by (A) practicing what you know and (B) looking thru old threads about stuff you didn't know about that expands your practice: books, DVDs, recording yourself and putting it on youtube, going to open jams and having practice partners (ideally on a variety of instruments like bass, fiddle, guitar, banjo) or overdubbing yourself, taking lessons.

There's books about practicing, some of them are more about making music central to your life: Victor Wooten's, Green/Inner Game of Music and Werner/ Effortless Mastery, other authors are Jon Harnum, Tom Heany, Klickstein, Dumais you can look them up on amazon

[T.D.Nydn]

Yeah,practice alot,,and like everything,on those days when your playing is hot ,is when to practice the most,on the days when your in a slump,go over some stuff and put it away,,

[yankees1]

Start EARLY!! Waiting until you are 64 makes it tough ! Unless you are Paul McCartney , " When I'm 64 " !

[Br1ck]

I've found a metronome to be my best friend. You think you have a tune down but that one pinky stretch works about half the time. You can fool most but not yourself. Slow it dawn until you play the passage clean all he time, then bumb the tempo just a little and repete.

It's a pain for sure, but better slower and clean than fast and sloppy IMHO.

A recording devise or a looper is valuable. Lay down a rhythm guitar track or comp chords on mandolin, then play along over and over. This is a great way to learn improv.

The best is to play with understanding musicians who want to help you.

[Mark Gunter]

How do you get better at the mandolin?



I suppose you could ask about it in the mandolin cafe forum, that's a popular method, as illustrated in this thread started in 2009. A lot of people will tell you many ways how to.

IMO, don't listen to the ones who warn that using a metronome will make you sound like a robot, and don't listen to the ones who warn that practice is bad as opposed to just 'playing.' I mean, it all kind of depends on what your own personal goals and aspirations are. Do whatever it takes to get where you really want to go with your music. The fields are ripe and there's plenty to do and to reap in just about any direction these days.

[BrianWilliam]

It's a secret. Once you hit 500 posts, Scott will tell you via PM.

[DavidKOS]

How do you get better at the mandolin?


IMO, don't listen to the ones who warn that using a metronome will make you sound like a robot,

right.

The only thing a metronome will do to your playing is help improve your time. Being accurate with the beat will not make you sound robotic, it makes your music flow properly and in time.

and don't listen to the ones who warn that practice is bad as opposed to just 'playing.'

Practice means to find what you cannot do well yet, isolate that skill, and improve it. It's a very focused thing.

Nothing wrong with doing a lot of playing! However most of us will need to hit the practice room to actually get to be a competent, much less professional sounding mandolin player.

[OldSausage]

...most of us will need to hit the practice room to actually get to be a competent, much less professional sounding mandolin player.

That has certainly worked for me.

[John Flynn]

I read an article once on musical prodigies. They tested prodigies and non-prodigies on factors like intelligence, coordination, hearing acuity and a bunch of other stuff. The conclusion was the #1 factor prodigies have is the interest and patience to put in the time and energy into practicing and playing. I find that conclusion similar to a study I read about coaching soccer, which I used to do. The #1 factor in improving at soccer is "touches on the ball."

There are more and less effective ways to play and practice, but putting in the time and effort is a prerequisite. I am a solid intermediate player. I will never be a great one. But I do improve all the time. The things that have worked for me are:

• Find a way to enjoy it. You won't put in the time if you don't. For me, it is learning tunes that I will actually play in performance or jams with other people. That makes it fun for me. But you have to find something that motivates you.
• Mike Compton once told me at a workshop: Practice every tune slower than you will play it, then practice it faster than you will play it.
• Work on the hard parts. Don't keep practicing a tune all the way through when you are getting stuck at the same place each time. Practice the notes in the place you're getting stuck over and over until they are automatic. Then go back to playing the whole tune.
• Take lessons: In person, online, workshops, try it all. You learn a lot that way.
• Play with others.
• Try to make sounds, not just play notes or do techniques. For instance, I struggled with crosspicking for a long time. All the exercises I tried were not working. It was not until I found a tune I really wanted to learn that required it that I turned the corner. I wanted to make that sound and some circuit in my brain figured it out. Then I could do it any time I wanted on any tune.

[roysboy]

[QUOTE=Patrick Sylvest;659160]It's funny, but players at all levels struggle with this. I don't believe that the majority of us are destined to be 'stellar' musicians. I can play a guitar, a mandolin, a dobro, all with some degree of proficiency. I've reached plateaus on all of them. The one thing that I can say has advanced my playing beyond a plateau, or two (they recur) is listening to lots of different music and players. Trying out different instruments is a neat way to discover things. (If you're not that adventurous, get a ukelele. It'll make you look at things differently)''

...all of the above crystallizes it , I think .

I'm a guitar player , drummer, bassist , harmonica player , writer , vocalist and sometime producer and have never had more frustration in ANY of those areas than I've had with the adventure of learning to play mandolin .I always FEEL like I should be way better than I actually am because the other stuff came together and continues to do so with some regularity and practice , lots of listening ,jamming , trial and error , and constant inspiration .

Mandolin ( and piano , I might add) has been a whole ' nuther kettle of fish on all fronts but mostly technique /execution . I hear it , I can find it on the fret-board , I'm inspired to no end ......but it just never seems to come together to a significant point of satisfaction for me after 6-7 yrs . I should also add that my mandolin gets far more attention than the other stuff . I 've accepted that its not ' my instrument ' but it hasn't deterred my efforts or my appreciation for the greats and it never diminishes the inspiration they bring .

[dadsaster]

I read an article once on musical prodigies. They tested prodigies and non-prodigies on factors like intelligence, coordination, hearing acuity and a bunch of other stuff. The conclusion was the #1 factor prodigies have is the interest and patience to put in the time and energy into practicing and playing. I find that conclusion similar to a study I read about coaching soccer, which I used to do. The #1 factor in improving at soccer is "touches on the ball."

There are more and less effective ways to play and practice, but putting in the time and effort is a prerequisite. I am a solid intermediate player. I will never be a great one. But I do improve all the time. The things that have worked for me are:

• Find a way to enjoy it. You won't put in the time if you don't. For me, it is learning tunes that I will actually play in performance or jams with other people. That makes it fun for me. But you have to find something that motivates you.
• Mike Compton once told me at a workshop: Practice every tune slower than you will play it, then practice it faster than you will play it.
• Work on the hard parts. Don't keep practicing a tune all the way through when you are getting stuck at the same place each time. Practice the notes in the place you're getting stuck over and over until they are automatic. Then go back to playing the whole tune.
• Take lessons: In person, online, workshops, try it all. You learn a lot that way.
• Play with others.
• Try to make sounds, not just play notes or do techniques. For instance, I struggled with crosspicking for a long time. All the exercises I tried were not working. It was not until I found a tune I really wanted to learn that required it that I turned the corner. I wanted to make that sound and some circuit in my brain figured it out. Then I could do it any time I wanted on any tune.

I read an article about national level figure skaters. The researcher was interested in finding out what the difference was between the top 10 skaters and everyone else. They put in the same amount of ice time, came from similar financial backgrounds and had similar genetics for the sport. The only difference they could discover was that the best skaters were willing to work on their most difficult moves longer.

IMO, learning has to be a little bit painful. Find the edge of your abilites and work at the edge if you want to improve.

[mandroid]

gave it 30 years..

[fatt-dad]

(didn't read replies, likely will)

I've been thinking a lot of this topic. Not sure I can even put my thoughts into words yet. The basis is I'm thinking of how I (we) learned to speak, to get fluent, to get informed and to get some specialties. I sort of think that has to also be the path for musical growth.

I'm thinking of the natural watching of our parents in vocalizing, the endless babbling of an toddler (first words?) and then (only then) is there instruction in reading and writing. So, in speech, learn by ear within some vein (say, English) and then how to read and write.

I liken the mandolin to the larynx - learn to, "Sing" it! I liken, "Bluegrass," or, "Celtic," or, "Classical" as the various languages. I liken music to books.

I think too much. . .

f-d

[Givson]

Get people to pay you (a lot) to play. According to Chico Marx in Animal Crackers, "the more you pay, the better we play. You pay plenty, we play plenty good. You pay too much, we play too much good". Groucho: "How much do you charge not to play?" Chico: "You couldn't afford it."

[mando-tech]

I know there are mandolin players with less than a year to over 30yrs of experience in this forum. When I played guitar I learned quick..I peaked...then just fizzled and stayed about an early intermediate skill level. I enjoy the mandolin so much more than guitar and I still have a lot of passion for this instrument. It seems to be on my mind probably more than it should be.

I don't want to fizzle or plateau on the mandolin. Many people get their panties in a wad if you say I practice the mandolin...they say "I play" the mandolin. In any even, how do you guys continue to grow as mandolin players. Are there things you decided to spend a little more time trying to learn, or are you just constantly just going for it on the fly. Being self taught its easy to not know exactly what to practice/play to make myself a better player. Right now I am trying to add singing to my playing and trying to "fake" breaks. But I would truly like to know how you guys increase your skills so you don't plateau for years at a time.

...keep the instrument OUT of the case, except when transporting,...learn to CHOP in all 12 keys before you start seriously on melodies. Try to play four hours per day. Compile a list of standard fiddle tunes gradually, -10-25-50-100,.-more.,...a general rule is, -if you can't hum it...you can't play it.,...try to avoid tablature,...get in your 10,000 hours as quickly as possible.

[Charlie Bernstein]

Hog - Love your avatar. VERY Blodwyn Pig!

[Mike Scott]

I have read this (well, maybe half of it) with interest. I play a bunch if instruments badly all while searching out one to play halfway well. About a week or so ago, I almost threw in the towel on all of it. At jams I struggle to keep up as well as play rhythmically ( no matter the instrument. So....... As I put the guitars away, consider selling off the dobros and perhaps the concertina, and concentrate on the mandolin my emphasis will be to work slowly with playing with the metronome on all songs, concentrate on getting the best possible tone I can, go to jams and not be shy about how bad I am (yet another major problem for me). After all this is supposed to be fun-right?

In keeping with the thread theme, I think one needs a formal plan with specific goals and a general time line to get there. Going back to my failed engineering training, a PIRT chart with a critical path would also be useful (tongue firmly in cheek here).

[OldSausage]

my emphasis will be to work slowly with playing with the metronome on all songs, concentrate on getting the best possible tone I can, go to jams and not be shy about how bad I am (yet another major problem for me). After all this is supposed to be fun-right?

In keeping with the thread theme, I think one needs a formal plan with specific goals and a general time line to get there. Going back to my failed engineering training, a PIRT chart with a critical path would also be useful (tongue firmly in cheek here).

When I started playing mandolin 17 years ago I think I dramatically underestimated the amount of time and effort it would take to be able to play at the kind of level I aspired to. And it seems to me that, in general, as people improve they tend to forget how much actual time they dedicated to becoming as good as they are, so they are not always reliable indicators for those who aspire. I took some pains to document my progress so I have a record that helps me realize how much I put in.

I don't want to depress anyone, and no doubt there is considerable individual variation, but I found it to be a truly mammoth time and effort commitment to become halfway decent. I mean, I had fun and enjoyed it, but I treated it like work. But at least, you know, once you reach a level you're comfortable with, you don't have to work that hard to maintain it. I think I read an interview with Kristin Scott Benson who recommended that you get good before you have kids, and that is good advice.

It really helps to work with bands, jam groups and/or other individuals to provoke yourself into doing better than you would alone. I do feel that playing with others has made a big, perhaps the biggest, contribution to developing my musicianship. But at the same time, I see many people who go to the same jams week after week for years and have little to show for their commitment. While it does help to be focused, it also helped me a lot to take on new challenges outside of my comfort zone, and to do things before I was "ready". I'm still waiting to be ready.

[Mark Gunter]

When I started playing mandolin 17 years ago I think I dramatically underestimated the amount of time and effort it would take to be able to play at the kind of level I aspired to ... I found it to be a truly mammoth time and effort commitment to become halfway decent. I mean, I had fun and enjoyed it, but I treated it like work. ... While it does help to be focused, it also helped me a lot to take on new challenges outside of my comfort zone.

An honest and insightful evaluation of a man's musical journey there.

In keeping with the thread theme, I think one needs a formal plan with specific goals and a general time line to get there.

I think there is an important dichotomy that needs to be considered. For me, what is needed is first a very general plan and loose goal tempered with a high degree of commitment. Then second, numerous and often changing specific plans with specific goals.

The first, for me, is that I play music, and I have the rest of what's left of my life to learn as much as I can or want to about it. Accepting or believing this with a high degree of commitment helps to mitigate any impatience with progress.

Learn stuff you're interested in, and work hard at it. This is part of the fun if you're in for the long haul. So in practice sessions, you can work on new stuff, or critically evaluate things you already do and work on improving them. That's where specific, focused work toward definable goals gets involved. The critical evaluation part, and the part where you know how to focus your efforts to improve, are where musical newbies find themselves at a disadvantage. Over time (usually measured in years) and with good feedback, a musician eventually becomes capable of identifying and analyzing problems that need to be addressed.

It's really a very personal journey for each participant in music. I find that if I go stale or reach a plateau, whenever I have the energy to "get back at it" I can just head in a fresh direction ... learn some new stuff, or return to a practice routine or project abandoned earlier, and before long there's new life budding on the musical journey.

[David Lewis]

10 minutes per day - that's nearly an hour a week. After a while, that moves to 20 minutes a day - that's nearly 2 hours a week. Don't put any expectations on yourself. Don't get stuck in the 'genre' trap - learn whatever songs you like to start. Don't get stymied by theory - theory is what you've played, not what you're playing. In practice terms, though, theory might be what you're about to do. But don't panic - learn it in your own time.

Soon, you're doing 30 minutes a day. And your fingers are moving better. And those notes are a bit easier to find. And those chords make some sense. And those scales are joining those chords up. Or maybe you don't think this - but you're a better player. You may have decided to look at a genre - Perhaps old-time; perhaps newgrass; perhaps bluegrass; perhaps rock, perhaps country. It doesn't matter. You might just be playing several styles. You might have bought another mandolin by now. A spare, perhaps, or an oval-hole, or an F-Style to contrast your existing. Maybe you've upgraded to a better instrument.

Practice. You're soon doing an hour a day. But it's not through force of will - it's because you like it. You watch tv with a mando in your hands. You read novels, while running scales.

The other thing to do is join a group. Playing with others helps immensely. Don't worry if they're much better than you - if they're happy to let you play, you'll catch up with them. Be a bit upfront - ask to take solos and suggest songs. Soon, you're as good as they are.

Practice. Play with others. Keep learning.

Keep learning. Keep a practice journal. Look at what you've done. Look at where you can learn further.

Listen; listen, listen listen. WHo are your favourite mandolinists? Listen to them. Work out what they do. Maybe some are a bit ahead - that's ok - find some who aren't so far ahead. See if someone has tabbed them - but better yet, sit with a recording and try and work it out. Listen to your favourite music. Arrange it, as best as you can, for mandolin.

question. Are you improving? What can you do to improve further? Where are your weak spots? What are you good at?

Practice. Jam. Listen. Question. Repeat.

That's how you get better.