Electronics

[Daniel Nestlerode]

Hi folks,
As you may or may not remember, I tune my Mandobird to CGDA in order to get a bit more tone out of the pick up.

I was having a conversation with Gary Vessel a couple of days ago (he's putting a bone nut on my 'bird) and we commiserated over the fact that high e strings (.008) rarely excite the electromagnetic field enough to warrant their existence.

So I'm asking, are there options for electronics that would bring the .008 high e in line with the rest of the strings? If not, I won't bother with a 5 string electric mando. I'll stick with 4 and increase the scale length to 15.75" or 16"

Thanks!
Daniel

[mandroid]

OK , I'll Bite ... divided pickups , under bridge piezos , such as RMC sells, work nicely.

small gage, high pitched E strings don't have much mass or move far in the magnetic field over a coil of wire pickup, but will give a decent signal when the vibration is directly exiting those little piezoelectric crystals.

a decent amount of down force on them help,string thru the body , or a string guide past the bridge, pulling down , can help .

Fan fret would be a good way to go on a 5 string. he says, having one that isn't .

I particularly like the Synth access that I can use with the RMC stuff, they make a few different ways to get to the 13 pin output that Roland's various pitch to MIDI GR & GI modules use.

IMHO, works better than Roland's own GK pickup , and a cleaner installation , as you only use.
and buy, the one pickup per string.

[Daniel Nestlerode]

Thanks 'droid.
I was kind of hoping I could just replace a volume pot or add a capacitor or something. I guess if I actually want to use a high e string, I need to do more than replace the (electromagnetic) pickup or volume pot.

Best,
Daniel

[GD Armstrong]

I've used the EMG active pickups with good results. They seem to "see" the high e better than passive units. Favorite one is EMG-FT.

GD

[Ken Olmstead]

Lower value volume / tone pots (i.e. 250k) bleed some of the highs off. You can recover more highs by going to 500K or 1000K pots. Don't expect night and day results but it can make a noticeable difference depending on the setup. I don't know about the Bird's setup but don't forget to adjust the pickup closer on the E string and lower on the G. Also, does it have adjustable poles? If so, you can crank the pole up on the Estring for more response. Can you fingers handle a 9 or 10 guage string? That little increase in size (more than 10% actually) can make a big difference.

Next is pickup replacement. If you really dig the Bird, it may be possible to have a custom wound pickup made to address your sound needs. Or creatively install an aftermarket pickup to do the job. For instance, I can not handle buzz. So as we speak, I am having the worlds most expensive pickguard made ($150) to accomodate a humbucking Protrack pickup in my KM300E. The mandolin is really cool and worth a couple hundred bucks to make it right for me. With electrics you can do almost anything, The only limitation is usually your patience and your wallet!

[mandroid]

Maybe [steve ryder a custom electric mandolin and pickup winder] get one wound with more windings around the pole for the E.
though typically the pickup winder rotates the whole thing ,

wondering .. would angling the pickup opposite of what is normally done ,
away from the bridge on the high end,
get more signal?

Piezo / magnetic blender , I.e, 2 volume knobs , could do interesting things ,
even if not going for the rest of the bells and whistles.

[thistle3585]

I would suggest rotating the pickup 180 degrees. Most likely, that pickup is half of a split P bass set and as such the magnetic bar in it does not fully extend the width of the pickup. Its designed to be offset and to cover two strings on a bass. Put a paper clip, or other small metal object, on each end and see where it sticks and that should show you where the ends are located. I would bet that the E string isn't getting proper coverage. From an electronic perspective, replace the pots with larger ones as well as upgrading the wiring and jack.

[mandroid]

I was thinking the Q was getting good strong E pickup layout / selection in a proposed 5 string ,
rather than getting the IV 'bird's E to work better.

Are the A & B units of a P bass pickup pair mirror image of each other ,
or just 2 of the same pickup?

back to spectator status

[Daniel Nestlerode]

Thanks all!
'droid, You're right. I was thinking about the general problem of the high e, rather than going back to GDAE tuning on my 'bird. I like having the C down there on the bottom. It gets more range in the registers I like. (Sometimes higher notes are less articulate.)

But all of the suggestions are great. I'm going to try boosting the pots on the 'bird as an experiment. I want to see if I like the tone better. The results should make ordering a new instrument from Andrew Jerman, Schwab, or Gary Vessel easier and more rewarding.

Thanks!
Daniel

[Christian McKee]

Another word in support of active pickups, I have a pair of old EMG Overlans in my 5 string, and they're fair to all strings. Output does drop as one climbs the register, but not more than is normal. The Overlans are no longer made, but current EMGs might be a good way to go anyway. FWIW, I don't have this problem with my Steve Ryder humbuckers, either.

Christian

[EdSherry]

Also, why are you using a .008? Try increasing the string gauge to a .009 or .010 in order to get more mass pasing through the magnetic field and thereby boosting your high E output.

[mikeomando]

Hi everybody!

All the suggestions in this thread have been pretty much spot on, so I'll add my two cents. Try the different string widths one after the other. Tune each one up to your desired pitch, and check the pickup response. Then tune down a full step and check the response. Then tune down another full step, etc. If you suddenly (or gradually) get better response, it could just be unfortunate pickup placement in terms of distance from the bridge. If you notice pickup 'hot spots' when you fret up the neck on the E string, that would point to this. Every builder seems to have a different idea about pickup placement. Look at the Stevens Emando pix on emando.com to see how he moved the pickup poles position under the E string, presumably to even out pickup response across the strings.

Every Emando I've ever played was defined by how well it's highest and lowest strings play. Nobody ever complains that their A string is too muffled.
What's your scale length? If it's too long it's hard to get any E string up to pitch, let alone ringing out when you play it.

Finally, how's the action on the E string? Can you lower the action and raise the pickup?

[Cliff D]

Mandroid mentioned pick-up angle, & I assume he was thinking about the angle of the p u relative to the bridge. Many mandolin pick ups are set like the Stratocaster bridge p u, although I have often thought the angle is in the wrong direction. Usually I am trying to wring the highs out of the bass strings & I want more mid at the high end: also I think there is more amplitude in the string vibration as one moves towards its half length, so volume would also be better served if the p u was further from the bridge on the high note string side. Sorry if this discussion is not directly relevant to the Mandobird, but I would be interested to hear any comments about pick ups angled other than at 90 degrees to the strings. I suspect my RISA would be significantly better if the pick ups were angled the other way.