Gibson explorer mando's?

[Cliff D]

I was trawling thru Londons Denmark St, & in "Hanks" I spied what appeared to be two slightly differently shaped solid bodied 4 string mandos, which appeared to bear the Gibson name. When I asked I was told they were not for sale. I'm really sorry I cannot post you folks photos of the beasts, but as the visitors to the cafe seem to have a penchant for chasing down esoterica I thought this may be of interest. So did Gibson ever manufacture such an item? I doubt if they knocked out very many!

[mrmando]

Unless they are some of Alex Gregory's Explorer-type instruments -- those did have a Gibson logo. I think Alex kept the mandolin, but might have sold off the dola, octave, and cello he built. Anybody in London want to run down to Hank's and have a look?

[Cliff D]

Oh wow, yes, that looks exactly like what I saw: only two on display, though (they would have been the two with the single pick up).What saddens me is that shops display gear like this, but do not have even an epi mandobird in
stock for Joe Punter to try. Still, please educate me first: could you define dola, octave & cello? & who is Alex Gregory?

[trevor]

Cliff,
There is an explanation of the different mandolin family members on my website. 'Mandolin Family Explained' pages.

[firebot]

I was at that shop in London once, but they only had one Explorer-Mando... but I snapped a pic with my phone. Sorry about the low-res (it was a phone...). The guy there said it was worth $30,000 USD.

[firebot]

..and actually, to further Cliff D's point, at the time I was looking for a Mandobird, and they acted like it was such an unusual request, yet they had this thing in a glass box...

[Cliff D]

in response to Firebot's post, no, that was not the instrument I saw, although very similar. I am 85% certain I saw the two single pickup instruments shown by Mr Mando. OK, I don't have a photographic memory, but I do pay attention to detail.

[Cliff D]

Trevor, I promise to visit your shop some day; even if only just to dribble all over the carpet admiring the stock. Brighton has just become a number one future holiday destination! As it happens I might be thinking of importing a tenor uke from the USA, & I will contact you to discuss that further at some other point in time, if that is acceptable. Incidentally, the page which you pointed me to implies that dolas, cellos etc are all different scale lengths, but that does not completely spell it all out for Joe Ignoramous like myself. Where I can I unpack this a little further?

[mrmando]

Well, hm. Maybe it's a prototype from the Gibson custom shop? Note that the headstock and pickguard are not the same as the ones in the photo I posted -- but they DO match the instrument that Alex is pictured with on the Emando.com page linked below!!! There's a good chance Alex was trying to license that design for a production model; he's had licensing deals with Schecter and B.C. Rich. He still owns one of these instruments; he played it at the Guitar Geek show at NAMM in January. For a while a few years ago, Alex was trying to put together a group called the "XXI Century Mandolin Orchestra" to play these instruments.

As to the question of who Alex is, check out the videos on his MySpace page; he's playing one of these instruments in the third one. And read a little more about him at Emando.com. I will get hold of Alex and see what he has to say about these instruments at "Hanks" in London.

As a Gibson custom shop prototype it certainly would have some collector value, but I don't know about $30,000. Bernunzio has lowered its asking price on Dave Apollon's electric H5 to $19.5K; still no takers. The Loar Vivitone electrics fetched less than $10K a pop at auction. I should think those instruments would have broader collector appeal than this one.

There's really only one electric mandolin that has achieved anything like icon status: Tiny Moore's 5-string Bigsby. Anyone know who has it? I wonder what it might be worth.

[delsbrother]

The instrument in the original post is discussed quite often by UK members of metalhead message boards (where Penta instruments come up every now and then, to everyone's amusement/disgust). Unfortunately the posts mainly revolve around how ugly/expensive it is, how stupid Pentasystem is (or how arrogant Gregory is). No one's bothered to take any pictures.

[mrmando]

Hey, that's my homeboy they're talkin' about.

Pentasystem isn't stupid if you know how to think in fifths. But I can imagine the average heavy-metal guitarist having some difficulty with the concept.

[crazymandolinist]

If you're talking about what I thinkj you are, I must say I find the Idea of switching from mando to a bassier tuning, playing the same tune using the same fingering an excellent concept. One could own a mando, octave mando, and mandochello and play the same thing on every one of them, I'm surprised bands haven't picked up on that yet.

[keith_rowan]

i've got a mando, and an octave (23" scale) mando, and there's now way you can use the same fingering on both.. you really have to look at it like a different animal (ymmv)

[Tom C]

My friend got an electric guitar that has onboard programming. He can change the tuning to open D for example, digitally. String tensions stay the same. How about this applied to an electric mandolin/mandola/mandocello?

[mrmando]

My friend got an electric guitar that has onboard programming. He can change the tuning to open D for example, digitally. String tensions stay the same. How about this applied to an electric mandolin/mandola/mandocello?

Can your friend's electric guitar change its tuning to open fifths? Voila -- a mandocello!

[mrmando]

I heard back from Alex Gregory. He says he got rid of those Gibson instruments years ago when he started Pentasystem, and they belong to Rick Harrison, who owns Hank's and some other shops in Denmark Street. Alex borrows one when he needs to -- he had it flown to L.A. for the NAMM show and then sent it back.

[delsbrother]

Do you know what the status of his patents/trademarks is? Can anyone make a multi-planar headstock and gain the "benefits" of Pentasystem, or was it some voodoo magic combo of angles, scale length, etc.?

[mandroid]

I believe he sold them to some Investors who intended an Import Contractor to be found.

Martin mentioned the rights to his recordings were on offer also.

[Cliff D]

Looks like Mr Mando has pretty much sewn this up, although people seem curious about "pentasystem" I presume there is a little more to it than tuning in 5ths?

[mrmando]

Cliff, check out the links I've posted ... there are some photos of Pentasystem instruments.

Darrell -- You could try a Google patent search for status on that front. I don't remember whether the patent for the multiplanar headstock had gone through before Alex sold out his interests.

[Cliff D]

will do. Regarding Tom C's post: yep, you can make one instrument emulate another, but there are always limitations to the emulation. So well & good if you need to expand your sound palette, but mastering a different instrument will multiply your understanding of the instruments that you play, & benefit your technique; learning mando is making me a better guitarist, as well as enabling me to play what I am coming to regard as a superior tool for rhythm work.

[Cliff D]

Thank you Mr Mando for all your input. The pentasystem instruments do seem very interesting, & I would sure like to try one, but the question in the back of my mind is why Mr Gregory borrows the explorer mando to play at shows, when presumably he still has access to the pentasystem instruments?

[mrmando]

No, he doesn't have access to the Pentasystem instruments. There are something like 72 of those and all of them were sold. Alex sold all the rights to Pentasystem a while back and the last couple of instruments went to the new investors.

[Cliff D]

Must be pretty gutting for him - I can't see anyone happily selling on the patent to something they've nurtured. There seem to be few people who are bold enough to champion something different; most just drift along with the current. The man has my admiration for daring to push the envelope, irrespective of his musical taste or success.

[delsbrother]

Martin, do you remember the scale lengths of the different instruments? IIRC it was:

Pentalin
Pentaula
Pentatar
Pentacello
Pentabass