For me personally, this is a bit retro since I cut my musical teeth in the MIDI world two decades ago when synthesizer technology seemed to be the new future. Of course, ten years ago I dumped all my studio production stuff, picked up the mandolin and decided to go all acoustic.
Seems I couldn't stay away forever. My latest toy, a GK-3 MIDI pickup for my Jonathan Mann 5-string, and a GR-09 guitar synth module. (Oh BOY!)
Ted,
Have you produced a midi sound file with this? Sure would like to hear what it sounds like.
Pretty wood on the mando.
John
as said previously , my dive in was thru the RMC synth access route ,
the 4 string I had was retrofitted , a bridge with 4 pickup pieces. promptly found the patches ran out at 15 fret on the E, so I swapped out the strings, and went 'Dola
the 5 string Pentaula got retrofitted this year.
put a .056 on to try an octave GDAEB with the 15" scale , frumpy low string,
it came as a AEBF#C# may look for a different string gage
set to try to get back to that..
they share the converter box [poly2], that blends piezo dry and synth signals. offers a pass thru for the magnetic pickup.
Kind of an invisible kludge.
Ted,
How does the GR synth module use the 6 thru 2 input,
[ for 2 different patches in different octaves],
rather than 1 thru 5?
wanted Steve Ryder to do something like that
[but it was out of Mr. Ryders knowlege base so not done]
because as I grok 5&6 can be split programed differently from 1-4..
. . . . . . .
of course as i live where no one cares if I open the case at all, it stays home to do my mando sax with marimba bits.. solo.
writing about music
is like dancing,
about architecture
GRK3 is the gene G protein receptor kinase 3, a neuraltransmitter, I think. You ARE high tech.
Seriously, Hot Rails and a GK-3, who could ask for more! That is a rig to envy.
I should bust mine out and see what happens...
A very neat & tidy set-up considering the external GK-3 pickup. I do love the look of the Mann 5 string; is there much of an acoustic sound from the chambered body?
Here's my synth ready EM-54 from Steve Ryder, fitted with RMC's and 13 pin output. It has a 14.5" scale length and is tuned CGDA at the moment. Much fun to be had with a Roland GI-20 pitch to midi unit and various soft synths - also sounds amazing with my Roland VG-8ex.
Oooohhhh! Switches! Knobs!
Seriously, that's really cool. Like what a Godin should be... Is it semihollow?
The Ryder does have a chambered body which seems to contribute to sustain; I'm really pleased with it
Yup, Godin has the technology, but they don't seem inclined to apply it to electric mandolins ... I've asked
I do love Ted's 5 string Mann; the GK-3 pickup actually looks cool mounted on the mando. Jonathan Mann makes some beautiful looking instruments!
Ted your manndolin looks sweet. Here is a photo of my Jerman koa 4 string w/ my gk3 mounted. Does anyone have a technical opinion about where to mount a gk pickup in relation to the strings given gk's have 6 poles and emandos have 4 or 5 strings? So the gk will overlap, and i have three choices, mount it high like i have done, mount it low so the gk over hangs on the knob side, or in the middle. Is it just a preference based on where it looks best, and where it will fit? Or is there some science behind which of the three choices i choose?
whoops! here is the photo...did it work?
Kevin, unfortunately with the limited real estate on our little instruments, we don't have a lot of options where to put the GK-3. I chose to sacrifice one of the knobs (tone--I never adjust this, anyway), and put it on the top treble side to keep it out of the way. This wouldn't be an option for your lovely Jerman; it would swallow three of the five knobs. I'm assuming these are there for a good reason. The downside to placing up close to the forearm is exactly that, interfering with holding of the instrument. It looks like you don't have much choice without doing some major knob surgery.
As to pole placement, I had this installed by someone else for me. All I know is it tracks well. Now, I'm not sure if there are more splitting options built into the bass poles (someone else can weigh in on this), but I have no intention of splitting sounds. Many of the GR-09 patch presets allow for a bass in the low strings, piano in the upper. Not my cup of tea for this instrument though, so I don't think it matter whether or not I used 1-5 or 2-6.
Should be option for 2 rather than one. thats the Q.
guess I have to pester Richard McLish..
using bass patches in one module, and something else in another Is what I do, for now.
GR30+GR33 + GKP (13 pin 1>4)+ Nady MM4 submixer for 4 stereo inputs.
writing about music
is like dancing,
about architecture
I put a GK2 on my Fender 5-string with OK results.
I'm really lusting (and have been for some time) for the Ryder EM-55 but can't seem to pry the $$ from my wallet. The Fender just sounds OK (cheap electric at its best), but I find the Roland tracks a little slow. I'd really like to upgrade the whole package to the Ryder with better outboard synth gear, too.
Someday,
Ken
Less talk, more pick.
so mandroid, your saying the second option I discribed would be your preference (the extra 2 GK poles overhang on the knob side of my instument)? I like that better. I have space, it will be more out of my way, and I will have less loose cable.
I am not doing anything too complex with midi. No multiple patches etc, just basic fiddle, wind, and bass accents and some spacey cosmic sounds every once in a while.
Since I dont need, nor have a figured out how to use any features that are unique to the bass or treble poles on the GK pickup, I think I will move it down for astetic and playability reasons.
GR is the synth, GK is the pickup & cable, divided pickup has individual leads,
thats 6 0f the 13 pins thru the cable
.and the Synth can treat, with different patch settings what comes off the 2 lower, 5&6, strings differently,from the other 4.
shifting the gk3 is easier than soldering in different leads.
{thinking} a patch bay in miniature would allow swapping around connections .. Hmmm..
writing about music
is like dancing,
about architecture
Though I love my Ryder (see above), for controlling synths and the modelling VG-8EX processor, I wanted to use some of my other emandos & mandolas to drive this stuff. I built a breakout box which allows me to access individual pins/strings, or combinations of pins/strings, on the 13 pin connector. The longer scale length of my Risa electric mandola (17 inches), allows more expression with regard to string bending - some monophonic patches sound all the better for it. All this from a normal mono instrument jack output, via my little breakout box, and into chosen guitar synth - generally though, I prefer the VG-8EX for it's synth modelling, rather than pitch to midi generated sounds.
...so you don't actually need special pickups to use guitar synths as long as your okay using them monophonically. In practice you can get some huge stacked mono sounds by driving 3 pins on the 13 pin input, and using pitch shifting. eg. horn sounds with root, fifth and octave.
The 13 pin connector is in the DIN pattern [deutche industrie normal] , so a black box to plug in and out of is certainly possible.
My instrument has divided pickups and an 8 pin connector & cable and a black box with Mono out and preamp for the pickups, and the 13 pin output comes out of the box not the instrument.
now the 5 string and the prior 4 string each at a time, share the same box.
RMC's polydrive 2 they made it for flattop acoustic guitars.
writing about music
is like dancing,
about architecture
So guys, to do a little thread necromancy...
I was thinking this morning about getting into the whole synth thing for my emando, mostly because I would like to be able to add some sonic color to music without necessarily doing full-on rhythm guitar/mandolin all the time.
What do you guys use for your pickups and synth modules? Anyone going the rack-mount route, and (if so) have a recommendation for a decent module?
I'm completely new at this, but the possibilities seem endless.
Schwab 5-string No.29 (1982)
Old Wave C# No.311 (2003)
Mann SEM-5 No. 60 (2007)
I like the RMC in bridge piezo elements, it requires routing a small wire directly under each bridge piece, down & out thru to the edge of the instrument.
there you may fit the 13 pin circuitry.
I liked the option of the black box for all that it is outboard on a stand shaft bracket.
For rack mount Roland's GI-20 [I is for interface, the synth module for keyboards is what it interfaces to, and Roland makes several such as>
each is is half rack and you would get a shelf bracket to bolt the pair to the rack rails.
For my kit I got 2 GR pedal modules, both discontinued by now.
GKP splits the 13 pin signal to 1 to 4 different 13 pin inputs,
then the stereo signal from each can be mixed back together .
writing about music
is like dancing,
about architecture
You sound like you've got it pretty well figured out.Originally Posted by (mandroid @ May 01 2008, 12:41)
I was wondering if you'd give your opinion (and a bit of a question as well):
What about a Roland GI-10 + SC55 module for the synth part? Any experience with the 55?
Also, with the GI-20 (or 10), it seems to indicate that you can also plug into it via 1/4" plug, not just the MIDI connection/pickup. Have you tried this? Is it even possible?
Schwab 5-string No.29 (1982)
Old Wave C# No.311 (2003)
Mann SEM-5 No. 60 (2007)
I just have the 2 pedal modules , A GK 30 and a GK33, each has a midi in and out 5 pin jack.
I have , with one of them, used midi patch cables to borrow the General Midi stuff in a keyboard; and use the internal speakers in that , playing the notes on the mando.
each GR module has a mono 'guitar out', and the dry analog signal can feed regular guitar effects pedals.
a 4 stereo channel mixer brings them all back down to one pair of line signals
As I look at the pictures there is 2 midi jacks on the GI 20, to do that too, and rack synth modules will let you do that too, no doubt use midi cable connections between them
Pedal board GK 20 is what they offer now, and the VG guitar modeling pedal modules which have a bit different stuff going for them... VG8 begat VG88 and now the VG99.
writing about music
is like dancing,
about architecture
Kid, as far as I remember, the GI-10 did have a 1/4" jack input which allowed you to do pitch to midi monophonically - the GI-20 does not allow you to do this from a 1/4" input.
However, it is very easy to make a mono jack to 13 pin lead, by cutting the 13 pin plug of one end of a 13 pin lead. You only need to solder the relevant string/input wire and braided shield to the 1/4" jack plug. You first need to identify the string/input on the GI-20, VG unit, or GR Guitar Synth that you wish to drive; there are plenty of GK pin diagrams online to help you with this. I find it's best to drive pin 2 from a 1/4" emando output.
I built a breakout box so that I can drive any GR Synth/VG/Pitch to Midi unit monophonically from any of my emandos. Using the breakout box, I can switch between different pin/string inputs, or drive combinations of pins/strings for monophonic stacked sounds. For poly sounds, I use my Ryder EM-54 (see above).
Could any of you post a sound file?
Yeah, I'd seen that it had a 1/4" plug. I was a little worried, because some of the things I've read about the GI-10 suggest that the tracking is far superior if you're using the GK pickup. But, I suppose I can always try it sans pickup, and see what the results are.
Is my impression correct that the main reason to use the MIDI pickup is that you can have a separate signal for each string, in order for the polyphonic synth patches to pick it up?
And also echoing delsbrother - anyone with some sound files should definitely post 'em. I'd love to hear your results. Since my goal in doing this (if I do) is the ability to contribute more to a group situation (e.g., playing the lead sax part on a Steely Dan tune, when we don't have a sax player), I would hope that the results are worth the effort.
I've got a lead on a GI-10 and a SC-55, and I think those together (from what I've read) might work well for this application.
Schwab 5-string No.29 (1982)
Old Wave C# No.311 (2003)
Mann SEM-5 No. 60 (2007)
The midi{stands for musical instrument digital interface, I think) [the 5 pin cable out the back]is generated by the module not the pickup, it analog , I see a 1/4" out on my gear input is divided , but you guys say the GI10 INput is mono, so that must predate the GK divided pickup.
I can see things getting messy with a mono signal of a combined chord all going out at once, (triangle shirt-waist fire-drill?) but will remain curious as to how it comes out.
No digital uploads from me, I got left behind when recording went away from tape, digital flummoxes me.
writing about music
is like dancing,
about architecture
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