Post a picture of your lyon&healy mando

**squirrelabama** · Nov-02-2007, 8:30pm

one piece back .........sweet!

**squirrelabama** · Nov-02-2007, 8:32pm

look at that flame! no plastic tips in the points either...the guys who built these were very gifted.

**squirrelabama** · Nov-02-2007, 8:33pm

my favorite shot...

**squirrelabama** · Nov-02-2007, 8:34pm

lets not forget the back of the HS.....

**Bill Halsey** · Nov-02-2007, 9:27pm

Originally Posted by (squirrelabama @ Oct. 26 2007, 00:11)

I'll post a picture soon of my style A, but have been wanting to get this post going for some time! Would love to know more about how to date them. I own 674, symetrical points. No idea what yr that is, but am guessing pre '20?

Squirrelabama, here's an idea for dating your L&H. Check the patent stamp on your finger rest. I have a long-scale symmetrical Style A #682, just 8 after yours. The finger-rest bears two patent stamps. One reads: "PAT APL'D" and has been filled in with something black; the other, just below it in the usual position, reads: "PAT.11-12-18". This leads me to believe that L&H was using up pre-patent guards, and that this instrument may have been made shortly after the patent grant, i.e., late '18 or early '19.

**Bill Halsey** · Nov-02-2007, 10:08pm

Mug shots of #682...

**squirrelabama** · Nov-02-2007, 10:13pm

Interesting! Upon closer examination, mine has the same thing going on. Thanks for pointing that out! Thanks Billbows! -Geoff

**Bill Halsey** · Nov-02-2007, 10:22pm

Great! It would be interesting to collate a list of the double-stamped L&Hs, with their S/Ns. Thank you, Geoff.

**Jim Garber** · Nov-04-2007, 11:05am

Originally Posted by (Billbows @ Nov. 02 2007, 22:27)

Squirrelabama, here's an idea for dating your L&H. Check the patent stamp on your finger rest. I have a long-scale symmetrical Style A #682, just 8 after yours. The finger-rest bears two patent stamps. One reads: "PAT APL'D" and has been filled in with something black; the other, just below it in the usual position, reads: "PAT.11-12-18". This leads me to believe that L&H was using up pre-patent guards, and that this instrument may have been made shortly after the patent grant, i.e., late '18 or early '19.

Mine is also longscale and SN 495 so earlier than yours. It also only has the "PAT APL'D" stamped on the pickguard.

Occasional poster Keef has been compiling a listing of L&Hs from various sources. Perhaps he will chime in here. I will contact him to see if he can enlighten us further.

**Bill Halsey** · Nov-04-2007, 11:46am

Good deal, Jim!

**Jim Garber** · Nov-05-2007, 7:51am

I just heard from Hubert. His book about vintage Washburn/L&H instruments will be published by the end of this year. More info..

The Teagle Washburn book is all right but the catalog pages are way too small and half the book is devoted to the current Washburn company which I have very little interest in. Hubert's book should be more intensive.

**squirrelabama** · Nov-05-2007, 2:02pm

Thanks for hipping us to that book! I will definitely be acquiring a copy! I dont know anything about Hubert....but I assume since he has your recommendation, this will be a decent resource!

**MML** · Nov-05-2007, 3:34pm

Hers a pic of #70 Style B, its such a sweet mandolin, plays like butter and has the voice of an Angel.
Got this one from Dexter J, and really enjoy playing it.

**Nat** · Nov-05-2007, 4:04pm

Well, Billbows, you and I are cosmic buddies, since I've got L&H 681, one number before yours.

I went to see if I also had the faint "Pat Apl'd" stamp over the regular patent stamp. I had to look three times before I could see it, but it's there. You'd never notice it unless you knew to look for it. You can almost see it in the attached picture. It's too faint to be intelligible.

#681 is also a long-scale, symmetrical style A, with a one-piece back. It has the pull-out extension. The instrument is in great shape, except for a little binding gap down along the treble extension (a common thing, I gather, with L&H mandos).

I have the (I assume original) rectangular case. Interestingly, the case has a cut out in its interior walls which will allow it to accommodate symmetrical or asymmetrical instruments. Don't know if this means the case came later, or if they were already contemplating/building asymmetricals at that point. I'd always assumed this was a 1918 instrument, but now that I think about it, I have nothing to substantiate that with.

While I'll admit to finding this L&H a little harder to play than, for instance, my Phoenix neoclassical, it does have an incredible, incredible sound. Still the best E-string I've ever heard on a mandolin (with the possible exception of a D'Angelico).

The strange little sparkles near the rims in the first photo are just lighting effects. The instrument has no cracks and the finish is not worn through at any point.

**Nat** · Nov-05-2007, 4:05pm

**Bill Halsey** · Nov-05-2007, 7:43pm

Originally Posted by (Nat @ Nov. 05 2007, 16:04)

"Well, Billbows, you and I are cosmic buddies, since I've got L&H 681, one number before yours."

Thanks for your post & pix, Nat -- great to find a sibling!

"I have the (I assume original) rectangular case. Interestingly, the case has a cut out in its interior walls which will allow it to accommodate symmetrical or asymmetrical instruments."

Mine seems to have been made for the symmetrical long-scale A...

**Bill Halsey** · Nov-05-2007, 7:54pm

BTW & FWIW: The mark in the top beside the soundhole is actually a single "bearclaw" figure in the spruce, and not a pick scratch. By the condition of the instruments on this thread, I'd say L&H owners have been a careful lot!

**brunello97** · Nov-05-2007, 8:21pm

These are real beauties. Can someone tell me when the asymmetrical A models gave way to the symmetrical ones? Or were there always both models present? What are the differences between symmetrical A models and the B models?

thanks!

Mick

**Nat** · Nov-05-2007, 8:48pm

Wish I had a case pic to show you, but my case is in storage in another state. Long story.

It's exactly the same as Billbows', except with green felt and (as I said) a little change in the interior wall configuration so that an asymmetrical will fit in there.

If anybody in here has an original case for their asymmetrical style A, I'd be interested to see a pic.

I'd also be interested in knowing what strings you guys use on your A's, B's, and C's...

Brunello, my understanding is that L&H only made long-scale symmetricals until some point (circa 1920?), at which point they shifted to mainly making short-scale asymmetricals.

Seems to me the main difference between the symmetrical A's and B's is the headstock. I also think only the A's had the retractable side extension (I could be very wrong).

I haven't ever had a style B in my hands... but from pictures it also seems like B's had a white side binding instead of the A's black-white-black, but that's a guess.

**Bill Halsey** · Nov-05-2007, 9:53pm

Here's an A & B. The A has B/I/B binding; front, sides & back. The B has ivoroid w/black offset on front, ivoroid only on back. Only the Style A has the pullout knee-pin. I'll try to get some better detail shots soon...

**brunello97** · Nov-05-2007, 10:09pm

Thanks, Bill, that's the kind of side-by-side I was hoping to see. I have both As and Bs in my 'archive', but have been seeking more information on the distinguishing characteristics.

I love the Dali-esque pickguard. (See his "Persistence of Memory".) What were these made of? Were they screwed right into the top (rim?) or is there a bushing/insert of some kind?

Mick

**Bill Halsey** · Nov-05-2007, 11:44pm

The finger-rest and center lamination in the neck are of vulcanised rubber, as is the headstock cover on the Style A. The finger-rest is fixed with a single (visible) screw into a brass bushing installed in the top of the point block. The rest also bears against the fingerboard, which holds it fairly rigidly, but there is also a felt "bumper" on its underside. I'll try to get some pics of these details.

BTW, note that the earlier (S/N #63) Style B rest is not cut out over the sound hole.

**squirrelabama** · Nov-06-2007, 2:06am

Hi Nat- I use J74's on mine. Anyone out there have one of those rectangular cases for a symmetrical Style A they'd be willing to part with? I'll be back in a sec, need to post a want ad!!!......geoff:p

**Jim Garber** · Nov-06-2007, 8:57am

Originally Posted by (Billbows @ Nov. 05 2007, 23:44)

The finger-rest and center lamination in the neck are of vulcanised rubber, as is the headstock cover on the Style A.

L&H describes the neck as laminated with "vulcanized fibre" in the neck and the pickguard (they call it a guard plate) as made of "black fibre". They do mention that the tuner cover is mad of "hard rubber." BTW the patent is prob for this subtance which seems to be similar to bakelite.

Here is a page from the 1925 catalog.