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Thread: "little martin" conversion to cittern?

  1. #1
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    Hi everyone
    The 23" scale Martin acoustic mini-guitars sell
    for about $150 used. I was thinking of converting one to
    a short scale octave-mandolin or cittern.
    The nut and headstock adaptations are pretty
    straightforward. I'm unsure of what to do re:
    the bridge. (adapt it, use a tailpiece, add
    bracing...) Maybe the extra string tension
    would tear it apart?
    This is a bit of a kluge, but I need
    a low cost way to see if an OM is playable
    (or something I'd use) It would be acoustically
    "quiet" I guess and probably have poor tone, but
    that's OK for now. Thanks for any ideas or
    suggestions.
    Joel

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    From what I understand the back and sides of those are made out of what amounts to chip board. It might be worth a try as a single-strung five-string cittern. Not quite the same thing as an 8 or 10-string, but I'd worry about it folding up instantly with eight or more strings.

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    I would tune it up with four strings like a tenor guitar, CGDA or GDAE (or add a fifth string if you want) using the current string slots. That wouldn't require any alterations at all and you wouldn't have to worry about the string tension.

    It wouldn't feel the same as paired strings, but it would give you an idea if the scale and tuning works for you.

    Patrick

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    Thanks for the suggestions.
    The single course strings is a good idea.
    [I've also seen mini acoustics made out of
    100% wood.]
    cheers--Joel

  5. #5
    Registered User KimRoulias's Avatar
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    Wow, when I read your topic, at first glance I thought it said "little Martin conversion to cistern." That's what I did with mine, and it works better as a cistern than it ever did as a guitar. Good luck with that!
    Kim Roulias

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    Registered User Bill Snyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Celtic Saguaro @ Oct. 22 2007, 10:05)
    From what I understand the back and sides of those are made out of what amounts to chip board....
    The back and sides are HPL - high pressure laminate. Nothing like chipboard but similar to millions of kitchen counter tops. I have used if for back and sides on a mandolin myself. It is not wood, but it is ok for a knock-around instrument.
    In this thread Paul Hostetter talks about converting some Baby Taylors (same size as the Martin?) to 8 strings. There is also a link in the same thread to a similar operation done by Frank Ford.



    Bill Snyder

  7. #7
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Curious @ Nov. 25 2007, 20:46)
    The back and sides are HPL - high pressure laminate. Nothing like chipboard but similar to millions of kitchen counter tops.
    Some have been unkind enough to refer to it as "Formica." That low-pitched whine you hear may be C.F. Martin spinning in his grave like a steam turbine...
    Allen Hopkins
    Gibsn: '54 F5 3pt F2 A-N Custm K1 m'cello
    Natl Triolian Dobro mando
    Victoria b-back Merrill alumnm b-back
    H-O mandolinetto
    Stradolin Vega banjolin
    Sobell'dola Washburn b-back'dola
    Eastmn: 615'dola 805 m'cello
    Flatiron 3K OM

  8. #8
    Registered User steve V. johnson's Avatar
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    So is there a conclusion that (ahem...) 'formica' will support an 8-string conversion?

    It would be real fun with a Red Henry bridge slotted properly and an Allen tailpiece...

    To quote Dave Letterman, "Will it float?" so to speak?

    stv
    steve V. johnson

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  9. #9
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Back and sides don't figure in structurally to any great extent, other than the neck joint -- AND if you decide to affix a tailpiece to the end block. I've never looked inside one of the "Formica" Martins to see what they do with the neck and end blocks, but if you proceed judiciously, you could probably come out all right. And, in any case, you're not risking a ton of money if you get the L'il Martin for less than $200.

    You'll have to re-work the headstock to accommodate the two extra pegs; you have to decide whether you want an 8-string pin bridge (which probably involves some finagling with the bridge plate inside the box, as well as replacing the bridge), or whether you want to add a tailpiece and a "floating" bridge. If you do the latter, the bridge will have to be high enough to establish sufficent downward string pressure to get that (plywood) top vibrating; this may require some adjusting of the neck angle to get an acceptable string "action" that's not too high out of first position.

    OK -- never done this, never seen it done -- most of what I think is speculation. I'd concur with PseudoCelt above and try it with four strings initially, see what it sounds like tuned GDAE, and if it seems promising, continue with the conversion.

    Lastly, without knowing how much of the work you'll do yourself and how much you'll "farm out," realize that you'll be putting several hundred dollars' worth of time and effort into what is a pretty cheap instrument. And what you'll end up with, will be a hybrid that may be fun for you, but will be of limited interest to others if you want to sell it -- unless the stars and planets align perfectly, and it sounds exceptional and plays smoothly.
    Allen Hopkins
    Gibsn: '54 F5 3pt F2 A-N Custm K1 m'cello
    Natl Triolian Dobro mando
    Victoria b-back Merrill alumnm b-back
    H-O mandolinetto
    Stradolin Vega banjolin
    Sobell'dola Washburn b-back'dola
    Eastmn: 615'dola 805 m'cello
    Flatiron 3K OM

  10. #10
    Registered User John L's Avatar
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    Easier conversion is an old archtop with a tailpiece. Add two banjo tuners between guitar tuners and change the nut.
    Johneeaaddgg

  11. #11
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (John L @ Nov. 26 2007, 15:23)
    Easier conversion is an old archtop with a tailpiece. Add two banjo tuners between guitar tuners and change the nut.
    Hard part is finding one the same size as the Little Martin; I get the feeling Steve doesn't want full guitar size and scale.
    Allen Hopkins
    Gibsn: '54 F5 3pt F2 A-N Custm K1 m'cello
    Natl Triolian Dobro mando
    Victoria b-back Merrill alumnm b-back
    H-O mandolinetto
    Stradolin Vega banjolin
    Sobell'dola Washburn b-back'dola
    Eastmn: 615'dola 805 m'cello
    Flatiron 3K OM

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