Marty Stuart's F5

[flatthead]

I always heard Chris Warner built it for Roland, but Roland didn't take it. I believe Marty roomed with Roland when he first went with Flatt.

On another note, I saw Marty about a year ago on one of those solo things: I think he said it was about the second or third time he had ever done it (maybe first time) and I have to tell you...he flat put it to it!! He played Lester's guitar, then the Clarence White Telecaster, then mandolin....back and forth for about 2 hours.....unbelievably good *tone*....that telecaster sounded about as good as I've ever heard any live instrument....

I got to visit a little with him later and I found him to be exceedingly articulate, cordial, and funny.....and he's got better hair than me.

[jim simpson]

I thought his was a Chris Warner as well. I've posted this pic before - a Chris Warner I used to own:

[jmpullen]

I am fairly certain that it is a Chris Warner product as well. I recall someone telling me once that it was a Kirk, but the word then came from a more knowing source that it was
from Warner. But like several have said, he is one more
kick a-- mandolin picker for sure. He could probably make a
gourd with a string on it sound good !

[harrykat]

i also beleive marty plays the telecaster that belonged to clarence white; the one he used in the byrds with the b- bender.

[Tom Mullen]

Are you referring to Chris Warner the banjo picker? He makes mandolins, or is it someone else?

[Crowder]

I've heard that Marty's personal collection of instruments is among the best if not the best in Nashville. He's a serious collector (and player!).

[f5loar]

Many are on a special display at the TN State Muesum in Nashville and will remain there through October. He also shows many of the vintage Nudie Rhinestone suits too along with other highlights from his collection that is stored in warehouses.

[Stephanie Reiser]

...but that Chris Warner says "The Gibson" on the headstock. I think I read somewhere that it was occasionally done, if not fashionable during a certain time-frame. Odd. I just hope that those who put other's name on the headstock put their real label inside the F-hole. Otherwise it's a forgery.

I saw Marty on the Grand Ole Opry with Skaggs, both on mandolin, and man...he sure could pick a lick.

[jim simpson]

Stephanie,
The Chris Warner that I owned (as illustrated) had a label inside that stated Gibson copy built by Chris Warner and dated (1973 - I think). I bought it used from a friend and new what it was. I had to do a bit of work planing the neck, adding a new fingerboard, thus the difference in binding color. I couldn't get how to age the binding at that time.
I've seen Hutto, Monteleone and other makers from thier early days making Gibson copies. I guess the quality of Gibson F's in the day made it more attractive to buy a good quality copy.

[Tighthead]

Are you referring to Chris Warner the banjo picker? He makes mandolins, or is it someone else?

It is that Chris Warner. He's also built banjos. I'm not sure how active a builder he is these days.

He does a lot of repair and set-up work through Campbell's Music Service just outside of York, PA.

[f5loar]

But did that Chris Warner learn how to make mandolins from Marion Kirk of Alabama? Marion Kirk learned from Randy Wood and teamed up with Rural Yarbrough.
And yes there was a long span of time in the late 60's to early 70's that dozens of unknown at the time mandolin builders(not so sure some were considered luthiers) that not only put "The Gibson" in the headstock in their F5s but also copied both labels and even used unknown serial numbers of the time. While most of these are quite easy to spot as fakes a few could pass as the real thing to most average mandolin pickers that don't know S**t about the real Loars. You'll find them worn and tattered in Pawnshops for $1000 these days.

[Jim Hilburn]

I'm really intrigued by that era when it was obvious there was a demand for F-5's and no big companies interested in filling the demand. It started with the conversions and then into the custom builds, whether or not they were intended to decieve.
This lead directly to the number of custom builders we have today. Gibson likes to portray themselves as the venerable old company that invented the F-5 but in fact are latecomers to the party.
By the way, this is not Gibson bashing, just my take on how it is.

[Ed Goist]

I heard..., Chris Warner...!!! #

I had the opportunity to chat with both Marty Stuart and his guitar technician for a few minutes after Marty's excellent concert in Kent, Ohio last night.

During the conversation, Marty confirmed that his F5 was built by Chris Warner.

Also, Marty's tech (and I can kick myself for not remembering the gentleman's name - he was remarkably gracious [especially when he realized how much of a mandolin geek I am]) brought Marty's F5 up to the edge of the stage and allowed me to take a few close-up pics. Here they are:



Here's a close-up of the first carving
on Marty's F5 - Johnny Cash's initials.


Also, I found this really interesting...The guitar tech's favorite 'signature' on Marty's F5 is from Doc Watson. it's the red label maker tape on the back of the peghead, and it's in braille! Now how cool is that!

[8ch(pl)]

I have a program of the Grand Ol' Opry that I attended in spring 1973. Long before I was interested in Mandolin. There was a Bluegrass Band and they introduced a 14 year old mandolin player who did "There's a Bluebird Singing, in the Blue Ridge mountains...." )not the title).

For years this program was lost in my travels until I found it after I started playing Mandolin. The Bluegrass band was "The Bluegrass Band" and I believe Mr. Monroe was introducing Marty Stuart, who was 14 at that time. Am I right?

I keep the program in my Tenor banjo case.

[jim simpson]

Marty's looks like it may have had a new fingerboard and binding just like my old Warner. Cool pictures!

[John Gass]

Those are some great closeups of what I'm sure will be a museum piece itself someday. Awesome!

[JeffD]

Wonder what would happen today if someone starting whittlin' on someone else's mandolin? Johnny Cash or not, I know that would not work very well with me.

Are you kidding, If Johnny Cash, or Jethro Burns, or Marty Stuart, or Chris Thile wanted to whittle my mandolin I would hold it down for them.

[f5loar]

Marty at 14 or in '73 was with Lester Flatt and the Nashville Grass band. He would often sing that song with Lester during that era.
If he did any other bands at that time I would guess anything like it is today of pickers getting together and calling themselves something else other then the name of the bands they played in at the time. He was likely sitting in with other superpickers of the day. Do you remember the rest of the "Bluegrass Band" ?

[John Flynn]

I found this in a CMT interview with Stuart online

"Well, I'd saved my money to buy that mandolin when I got a job with Lester Flatt, and it was $650. For years, I was real proud of the fact that it never had a scratch on it. It looked like a brand new instrument for probably 12 or 13 years. When I got a job with Johnny Cash, he got on a kick of wanting me to teach him how to play the mandolin. And he was a horrible mandolin player. He'd take my mandolin on the stage and just play along with June Carter when she was singin'. One night I looked over there and he had his pocketknife out and scratched a huge cross on it and put his initials, "JRC," on it and then flipped the mandolin over and autographed it and signed, "Johnny Cash." My heart fell. After the show, I said, "What did you do that for?" and he said, "I didn't want you to forget the Lord." And I told him I could have remembered the Lord without him wrecking my mandolin. But it was all in good fun. And that started a trend after that. People just felt compelled to sign the mandolin. It has Stephen King, President Clinton, Bob Dylan, Billy Bob Thornton, Chuck Berry, Quincy Jones, Natalie Cole, ex-girlfriends, my momma and a lot of people I don't know on there. I'm about to run out of places for people to sign."

[CES]

I'm surprised Connie hasn't done a little creative editing/whittling of her own given the ex-s on there...of course, the man does wear a T-shirt that says, "I love Connie Smith," but I don't know how tolerant my wife would be of that graffiti .

Glad you enjoyed the show and got to take a close look at it...pretty cool, indeed...

[8ch(pl)]

Well F5 Loar, by the song, I think you have confirmed that it probably was Marty Stuart. The band was Bill Monroe and the Bluegrass Boys, I didn't remember that until I found the program. That is what I meant by it being "The Bluegrass Band". I wasn't into Bluegrass at all back then and am more Folk now.

[Willie Poole]

Chris Warner has done some mandolin repairs for me in the past but since then I believe he has started doing gun repairs and works only part time at Campbells music in a small town close ot York Pa....I haven`t seen or talked to him for some time so that might have changed by now...Chris is a fine mandolin picker as well as a banjo player and builder....

I can`t understand why some good builders couldn`t have made a fake Loar that would fool the "experts", if Gibson could do certain things then so could others....I`m not bashing Gibson or anyone just seems to me that if Gibson can now claim their MM is as close to an original Loar as possible then someone must be able to duplicate one....I have heard that there are some out there that would fool the experts but I don`t know, all I have seen and played seemed original to me....Willie

[f5loar]

Then maybe the ones you played were some of the fake ones! There are the really good fakes and then the really bad ones. There is a late 60's story of a fake Loar that was so real George Gruhn almost bought it until Harry West got in on the deal to disspell why it was a fake. I've heard lots of stories from guys that say they played a Loar only to find out it was a pretty good fake. And then I've actually seen many guys hold, inspect and play a real Loar and not know what it was.

[bluegrassgm]

OK - here goes... my honest opinion;
I don't get it! I must be missing something. I don't care whose names are on it... that mandolin looks absolutely terrible.
If that is "mojo" then I'll do without it.

I wonder what Lloyd Loar, Bill Monroe or Steve Gilchrist would think about it? LOL

[Willie Poole]

F5 Loar....I met a fellow in Missouri that was showing off his "Loar" and he almost smacked me up beside the head when I showed him some things to prove that it wasn`t a "real Loar', the following year I went back to that festival and he came up to me and told me I was correct, that it was in fact a copy, it wasn`t even a good one...I can`t say that all of them that were said to be real were actually real but I have played and seen quite a few that I knew pretty much were the real thing, I loaned some money to a fellow once so he could buy one and I considered myself a half owner and had the chance to play and inspect it over real carefully, it is now owned by a Cafe owner...I`m sure I could be fooled tho....Willie