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Thread: Chop chord

  1. #101
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    I wonder if the confusion is that so many fiddle tunes are written with mostly eighth notes. If you just listen to the tune, you might think each note is a beat, but in reality its 1 and 2 and 3 and 4, and in that case (i.e. in 4/4), the 1,2,3,4 are all downbeats, but since the tune is mostly eighth notes, you would chop on the "and".

    Does that make sense?
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  2. #102
    String-Bending Heretic mandocrucian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by
    I wonder if the confusion is that so many fiddle tunes are written with mostly eighth notes. If you just listen to the tune, you might think each note is a beat, but in reality its 1 and 2 and 3 and 4, and in that case #(i.e. in 4/4), the 1,2,3,4 are all downbeats, but since the tune is mostly eighth notes, you would chop on the "and".
    Reels are actually in 2/2 when they are written at the 8th note level. (Note groupings of 4+4=8 rather than the 2+2+2+2=8 as in 4/4.

    If you want to chop on the & on a 4/4 groove - 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & - you can do it and you'll end up with "jump" ala "Choo Choo Ch'Boogie" or "Reet Petite". Bassline will be walking on 1234. Also gives you ska.

    Any melody can be superimposed over any groove, so you can play a 2/4 or 2/2 fiddle tune over a different type of backing. Play "Soldier's Joy" as a 12/8 Fats Domino thing. Or over a clave additive rhythm groove (ala Bo Diddley)

    NH

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  3. #103
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    Niles -- you're absolutely right that any tune can be played over any beat (though that doesn't mean it always comes out sounding good!). One of my favorite recordings is Joe Craven's "Camptown" -- (mostly) American fiddle tunes played to a lot of world beats (African, Caribbean, etc.)
    EdSherry

  4. #104
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    It's probably all been said in one way or another, but I'll throw in my .02 anyway. I use the chop on the mando of course, but always have used the chop on the rhythm guitar as well. Especially in swing music. Maybe sometimes too much. Maybe I should have been a drummer. btw, sometimes I tap my foot to the other beat but mostly take care of it in my head and let the other instruments do it for me.

    Jack
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  5. #105
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (mandocrucian @ Aug. 31 2007, 01:38)
    Reels are actually in 2/2 when they are written at the 8th note level. (Note groupings of 4+4=8 rather than the 2+2+2+2=8 as in 4/4.
    Herein is the problem. We would all agree where a traditional bluegrass tune should be chopped, upon listening to the tune. But depending on how we assume it would be written out we would call the location of those chops something different.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

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  6. #106
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    That's very true.

    I think the argument that 2 and 4 are downbeats is based on notation. Whereas the people saying 2 and 4 (in bluegrass) aren't downbeats are basing it on listening.

    If I were to guesstimate, the term "downbeat" comes from either the concept of tapping a toe or from conducting. A conductor only marks one downbeat a measure which would be the first. Tapping a toe would mark the pulse. Aside from the savvy who tap on 2 and 4 that would mean a downbeat in bluegrass (or latin for that matter) would fall on 1 and 3.

    In the end everyone is talking about the same thing. Some are just being more confusing about it.

  7. #107
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    Having said all I have to say to ApK, we'll have to disagree to differ.



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    It's a good thing I am at work and getting payed while I read this,.......

    Otherwise it would have been an utter and complete waste of my time.
    "Tears are only rain that makes love grow"

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by (ApK @ Aug. 16 2007, 14:18)
    Quote Originally Posted by (Mike Bunting @ Aug. 16 2007, 13:21)
    Quote Originally Posted by
    DO NOT rely on chord sheets; find and compose your chords using your knowledge of their construction and the fretboard. And, regardless
    of idiom, examine the possibilities of three-note chords which allow much
    better control of voice-leading and certainly make enough noise to be chopped.
    Absolutely!! It is far better and more useful to learn and understand what you are doing that to just repeat something by rote. (This applies to more than just music).
    Yeah! #Why learn from those who came before? #Better to reinvent the wheel every time!



    Seriously, though, theory and figuring stuff like this out is great, but I think it's ok to learn to have some fun and get motivated first. #IOW, don't RELY on chord sheets, ok, but don't be afraid to use them, either, if you want to. #Life's hard enough, no?
    I never suggested reinventing the basic chord types
    and the fretboard.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by (JeffD @ Aug. 17 2007, 16:17)
    A lot of time and energy is spent looking for or arguing about where the front door is to our mando-world. The reality is there is no one front door, ya just gotta jump in, flail around with what ever tools you can find, and swim out to the edges. Eventually you will want to learn chord theory, chord shapes, chord melody, any and all of it. But at the beginning just jump in.

    I know the instructors will talk about developing bad habits, (they are like a bed, easy to get in and hard to get out of), but I would say lets get some habits going, good or bad, and then correct them. Bad breath is better than no breath.

    Nothing motivates the search for understanding like trying to solve a problem. But you have to dive in and develop some problems, some curiosity, and then go and get the details.

    Just my take on it.
    The worst habit is to not use your ears; the next worst one is to
    learn by rote without understanding. I can read from many posts here that
    some people learn how to string chords one after the other without any reflection on how they connect, or which voicings are the most effficient.
    Someone posted a chart that has some absolutely horrible voicings
    and dead-end forms that would require a lot of acrobatics to resolve properly.
    At least you must view these charts ciritically.

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