'24 snakehead repair

[OregonMike]

This seems like it is really all there (non-original tuners, pg, tp) but even the back split is at the seam (and caused by that strap button):

'24 Blackface A-1

Other than a fret job and a bridge, is this back split/side seam separation that challenging of a repair?

I'm a player not a fixer,

Mike
1916 A-0 Pumpkintop Paddlehead
1924 A-1 Blackface Snakehead
www.MusicMoose.org

[sunburst]

They mention the back being loose from the rim somewhere, but I don't see it in any of the pictures, so I'll assume that the back is still glued firmly to the head block. That's what complicates the repair of the back center seam. The crack can't be closed to glue it unless one first separates the back from the head block, or one could do as they suggest and glue a spline or sliver of wood in the crack rather than close it. It's not a trivial repair, but it's not a major overhaul either.
The asking price seems a little high to me with the issues involved, but I could easily be wrong with the way prices for "Loar era", truss rod, and snake head mandolins have been going lately.

[Gail Hester]

I agree the price is too high. It will cost about $400 just to get the correct hardware back on it. If the seam separation is the only issue, no problem. I'd have to look it over to tell but sometimes when the glue lets go there is a reason for it and it goes farther than you can determine from a picture.

[Antlurz]

I'll admit, I've not paid a lot of attention to the snakeheads, but is that rosette correct?

Ron

[Gail Hester]

Yep, rosette is correct, black-white-black-white-black. I have several just like it in the shop right now.

[Paul Hostetter]

I think the back is separated from the neck block, but only in the most common way: the back shrank more than the block did.

This is a very graphic example of why that strap button location doesn't work!

[OregonMike]

Great responses all, thanks, where else but this can I get a bushel of pro-luthier opinions with one posting?

So Paul, couldn't this back be pulled and bound to make up the gap?

I agree it is missing some parts but it is the real thing... I think I'm just feeling sorry for it and want to hear it sing again!

Mike
1916 A-0 Pumpkintop Paddlehead
1924 A-1 Blackface Snakehead
www.MusicMoose.org

[Paul Hostetter]

You can't pull anything in there, because the neck block is enormous and quite solid. You can, however, bind the back, which will cover the mess. Sometimes the gap is between the sides and the back, both of which are solidly glued to the neck block. The sides shrink across the grain (as the back did as well) and that's what causes the gap, though I can't say for sure without seeing it better. It's a toughie. Short of taking it entirely apart and reshaping the neck block to match the current condition of the back and sides, you only have odd other choices. Binding to cover the yuck is usually the one I make.

[Gail Hester]

"I think I'm just feeling sorry for it and want to hear it sing again!"

Mike, I can relate to your modivation, I don't do it for the money.

There are options for restoration as Paul has pointed out but a luthier really has to have it in his/her hands and discuss those with you.

Here's a snake I've been working on that had sufficient side thickness so I was able to sand and blend out the misalignment. #The visable cracks are glued/filled and this one is ready to finish.

[Gail Hester]

One other option discussed is to bind the back which I chose to do with this other one I'm working on since it had previously been re-glued in a misaligned condition. Of course all of this is way easier if you happen to already be refinishing the instrument.

[Martin Jonas]

But is there any structural problem with the back having shrunk by more than the neck block? Looked from very close up, the heel of my 1921 A-jr looks much like the Elderly A1 above, minus the strap button and the centre split (luckily). The back has shrunk and there is a ledge of about 0.5 mm between the side ribs and the back around the top of the neck block. No separation, open seams or movement under pressure, everything seems perfectly stable. No idea whether the original glue has held despite the shrinking or whether the entire back had been off at some stage and been reglued back (probably the latter, I'd think). Of course one could cover it up by binding the entire back, but on an A-jr with somewhat battered original finish, that would be terribly intrusive (as I would reckon it would be on the A-1, although that at least has top binding to match).

Martin

[Paul Hostetter]

If the joint's solid, it's solid. I have a beautiful A-2 in right now that the owner sent because he thought the neck/back seam was open or perhaps the neck block had swelled (not an unreasonable guess) - it just has a long unsightly gap and the sides project well out from the back, but structurally the mandolin is quite alright. That gluing area for both the back and the sides is very large, and somehow while those components crept, enough of it held on. If it was open, I could easily reglue it, but it's nowhere near open. It just looks bad.

An A-Jr with a bound back would be pretty strange, but then again, Gibson was pretty strange. Some old Gibson A's came from Kalamazoo with ivoroid binding around the front, and black binding around the back.