O/m and cittern - observations & questions

[Barbara Shultz]

Hi to you all! First a little about myself, etc.. then the questions/observations. I started playing mandolin almost 2 years ago (never played a stringed instrument till then). I play mostly celtic /old time/ traditional music. I'm all about playing the melody... chording is my least favorite thing to do. My favorite mandolin type is the a body, with the oval/d hole. Right now, I'm playing a Weber Y2K, with a Weber Bridger A on the way. I also have a sweet vintage 1955 Martin A. I'm 53, female, of average height / weight, etc. I've also got a Petersen O/M and a Petersen mandola. My instructor has Petersen Cittern, with the shorter 22.5 inch scale (same as the O/M). The cittern is tuned CGDAE, the O/M tuned GDAE, the mandola CGDA. I want to start playing the O/M more... I just recently picked up my friend's cittern, and LOVE it... you'd think that since the cittern & O/M have the same maker and scale, that they'd play comparatively. I've noticed that one problem I have playing the O/M is that my little pinky tends to go between the pairs of strings on the G & D strings. The pairs on the cittern are closer, and I don't have the problem on that one. Bill Petersen said that he'd started making them with the strings slightly farther apart, to prevent buzzing for the more aggressive players, but he said he can put me a new nut on, with the strings slightly closer together, pretty easily, so as soon as the weather gets decent enough for travel here in the midwest, I think we're gonna take a day trip and get that done. So, I'm still mostly interested in playing the melody, even on the bigger instruments. Flat picking. How many of you CBOM players play the melody? What tunings do you use, especially on the 5 course citterns? The low string (tuned as C) on the short scale cittern, is hard to tune, hard to stay in tune, and buzzes a lot. So, for now, it's mostly there for decoration, at least with me playing it. Does anyone have any input on the differences of the 25.4 inch scale vs the 22.5 inch scale.

I also read the recent thread about holding the O/M (I think it was) a female's dilemma. With my mandolin, I experimented and experimented (my first mandolin was a Michael Kelly Legacy O = the f body with oval hole) With my weber mandolin, i've found i get the best sound playing it sitting down, with it on my lap, angled AWAY from my body, so that there is no muffling, etc. I'm working on playing the cittern and o/m with about the same positioning.. I seem to be able to get them to sound the best, and be somewhat stable, even without a strap. I kind of stabilize the instrument between my 'chest' area and my arm/elbow area.

I've also noticed that the BEST way to play, is NOT to look at ALL at your left hand! Sometimes I have to close my eyes to keep from doing it.. But, looking at your left hand, especially on the bigger instruments, ends up with eye strain, a crick in the neck, and shoulder cramps! So much easier to play by ear... you can hear if you're fretting it right....

Thanks for reading this, and any comments / suggestions will be greatly appreciated!

Barbara Shultz

Weber Y2K1 mandolin
Weber Bridger A mandolin (in route!)
1955 Martin A mandolin
Martin backpacker mandolin
Petersen Octave Mandolin
Petersen Mandola

[otterly2k]

Hi Barbara,
I play OM, and switch back and forth between melody, countermelody/harmony and rhythmic accompaniment (some chords... but a lot of open ones). My OM is shorter in scale (20.5)than yours, which makes this possible for me. As someone with short fingers, I had trouble even with the 22.5" scales. I shudder at the thought of trying to play melodic lines on a 25.4" scale instrument. YMMV, of course.

re: tunings -- I seem to be stuck in ADAE and like it well, except for anything in the key of G, in which case I miss the low G note. I like GDAD too, but am less fluent in it.

I really have no experience at all with 5 course instruments... so you'll have to search the previous threads or wait for some 5 course players to chime in. or both.

By all means, have the slots changed so that the strings are closer together... seems an easy enough problem to fix.

Welcome to CBOM-world...
KE

[Greg Ashton]

I currently have a short scale Weber Sage (21") on which I play both melody and chords but exclusively melody at the session I attend. For the past 3 or 4 months I've been tuning it ADAE following Otterly and Dagger Gordon's lead. This tuning makes sense on a shorter scale because the low A sounds better than a low G, which would require an even thicker string. Secondly, it's great for chording in the common keys - better than GDAE in my experience. Thirdly, a lot of traditional music played on the fiddle rarely goes to the low G if you are playing melody. If I had a cittern I would want to tune it ADAEA or ADAEB allowing one to play the high B note in first position.

If I had a 22.5 " I might tune it GCGDG or GCGDA and capo it at the second fret (giving a 20.5" ADAEA) most of the time and take the capo off to play chords in G when necesary. I know an owner of a 22" cittern tuned GCGCG who does just that. Finally if you're not squeamish about capo use, you have could put it at the 7th fret and have DGDAD or DGDAE - like a mandolin with an extra bass string.

[pettyman]

Hi

I've not played melody in public yet but my brother has recently composed a jig/reel composition and I have begun to take melody occasionally on my 26" scale Moon Cittern - it's beginning to come. My brother plays mando - the switching compliments jigs and reels wonderfully!

Matt

[Celtic Saguaro]

I've heard someone else here complain about the string spacing on the G-strings of the Petersen OM. #Mine was fine, but it's good to hear he will readily fix it for you!

For playing straight lead on the OM I don't see much reason to tune anything but the standard. Nothing wrong with the other tunings, mind you. It just adds another layer of complications for playing melody, while it makes chording easier. On the other hand, there are some nice show pieces for the other tunings. If you do get your own 5-course cittern to go with your OM you might definitely want to look into other tunings for the drone affects, etc.

I tend to avoid looking at my right hand. I've played enough mandolin, tenor banjo and OM to not need to look at my left hand, but I do sometimes especially when reaching with my pinky for high B on the OM. It's a long way in first position!

[Jim M.]

My Crump is 25.5". I play some melody on it but the tunes I can play tend to be slower airs and waltzes, which sound great on the long neck. I can play some faster tunes but the fingerings need to be fairly simple. I have some trouble with, e.g., O'Carolans Concerto, which has a fast reach between the 7th and 3rd fret that is basically impossible for me.

[PseudoCelt]

I play a Fylde bouzouki with a 25.5" neck, tuned GDAE. Though I have fairly small hands (for a man), I chose a longer neck because I prefer the feel and sound of lighter strings.

I mainly play melody/countermelody, but I've never found the long scale to be too much of a problem. Playing melody on a long neck is easier if your hand is completely free to move up and down the neck (no anchoring the thumb). My zouk has a big body, and it is relatively easy to hold it using my right arm and body, so my left arm doesn't have to support the neck.

I try to play more slowly, which makes things easier and makes good use of the sustain of the bouzouki/OM. Some tunes do require a bit of rewriting and some are just too difficult on a long neck. I would try to avoid a 3rd fret to 7th fret reach on a fast tune. I think some of the problems with a longer scale arise from trying to play as you would on a mandolin.

In my experience, my little finger slips between the strings when I don't get the end of my finger perpendicular enough to the fretboard - more likely on the G/D strings on long/wide necks. I don't really use my little finger much, partly for this reason.

Patrick

[dj coffey]

Barbara, very interesting post!

I didn't realize that it was possible to adapt the string spacing with a nut change. I've run into that problem with my new octave (a Bridger, by the way). I'm out for a week in March, and at that time I think I'll have the luthier do that! So far, I've compensated for the pinkie slipping through the strings by flattening it out, or - for the G and D string - substituting the 3rd finger when it makes sense. Pinkie string splits have not been as much an issue for me on the A and E strings, so I continue to fret those normally.

So far, I've been successful at playing most of my mando fiddle repertoire on the octave. One main reason I bought it was I knew it would force me to practice shifts as well as force greater use of the pinkie, so I think it will improve my overall playing on the regular mando. The other part is I would like to play better backup (not chop chords though) and the octave seems better for that sort of thing.