Arched top/arched back combination

[michaete]

Hello everyone! I’ve been lurking on this forum for quite a while and have found a wealth of useful information. I’d like to thank all the regular contributors out there for sharing their knowledge and building this resource. I’ve always been able to answer any questions I had about CBOMs by searching this site and the cittern list. At least I was able to answer them all until now….
I'v had a 5 course short scale instrument for about a year now and am absolutely loving it. I’ve been playing mostly melody on Irish tunes so far with occasional rhythm. So anyways, I’ve made up my mind that I want to get a long scale instrument and have been looking at all the options. One possibility I have come across is the arched top with an arched back and I was just curious as to how the arched back might affect the sound when there is also an arched top. Does anybody out there have any experience with an instrument with this combination?
My current instrument is an arched top and I like that sound. I was thinking about a long scale to use more for rhythm. I’m pretty familiar with the whole flat top vs. arched top thing and the different sounds they offer. So do you guys think that an arched top with an arched back would sound like an arched top/flat back instrument with more volume and less sustain or would it do something totally different? I’m not seriously considering this combination right now. I’m mostly just curious.

[zoukboy]

Hello everyone! I’ve been lurking on this forum for quite a while and have found a wealth of useful information. I’d like to thank all the regular contributors out there for sharing their knowledge and building this resource. I’ve always been able to answer any questions I had about CBOMs by searching this site and the cittern list. At least I was able to answer them all until now….
I'v had a 5 course short scale instrument for about a year now and am absolutely loving it. I’ve been playing mostly melody on Irish tunes so far with occasional rhythm. So anyways, I’ve made up my mind that I want to get a long scale instrument and have been looking at all the options. One possibility I have come across is the arched top with an arched back and I was just curious as to how the arched back might affect the sound when there is also an arched top. Does anybody out there have any experience with an instrument with this combination?
My current instrument is an arched top and I like that sound. I was thinking about a long scale to use more for rhythm. I’m pretty familiar with the whole flat top vs. arched top thing and the different sounds they offer. So do you guys think that an arched top with an arched back would sound like an arched top/flat back instrument with more volume and less sustain or would it do something totally different? I’m not seriously considering this combination right now. I’m mostly just curious.

michaete,

I think you will find that most of the arched top instruments, at least the ones that are carved rather than formed, also have carved backs. There are a few builders like Stefan Sobell who carves his tops but uses flat backs that are bent over arched braces--this is sometimes called "radiusing" because it often entails the use of a radiusing dish to induce an arch into an otherwise flat piece of wood--but I think you'll find that most bouzouki/octave mandolin builders who carve tops also carve backs.

Since you are considering a long scale instrument, one thing I would urge you to do is to think about the sound of other players' instruments that you like, and try to determine if those are flattop or carved top models. In other words, figure out the *sound* that captivates you and then pursue that. The rest of the details will take care of themselves. Give us an idea of the players who's sound you like and we may be able to give you some pointers.

[michaete]

I probably should have said carved top instead of arched. #I wasn’t aware that most builders made carved backs with their carved tops. #I was under the impression that the opposite was true. #Most of what I’ve seen in person (which isn’t much) were flat tops. #I’ve looked at just about every luthier’s website that I could find. #Maybe what I was looking at were mostly induced arch tops as opposed to carved; I just didn’t know it. #I’m mostly curious about how a flat back zook sounds different from a carved back zook when both have carved tops. #I haven’t been doing this for very long. #I’m still learning about all the different terms related to the construction. #But, you could probably tell that.

As far as my favorite players out there goes, they seem to be mostly flat top players. #But I’m leaning more towards the carved tops. #It’s just the sound that I like and has worked well for me so far. #That could always change at sometime in the future though.

[brianunitt]

As a follow up to roger's suggestion to "think about the sound of other players' instruments that you
like, and try to determine if those are flattop or carved top models. In other words, figure out the *sound* that captivates you and then pursue that." #I have been intrigued by the sound that Alec Finn gets on John Carty's new CD "I Will if I Can." #It is a very bright, light sound. Does anyone know what Alec plays. #It's just for future reference, as I am happy with the Petersen OM I just bought from the classifieds.

[Michael Wolf]

Brian,

Alec Finn plays three coursed Greek Bouzoukis tuned in DAD.

Cheers
Michael

[Eric Selinger]

A question for you, Michaete--

You say "I've had a 5 course short scale instrument for about a year now and am absolutely loving it." Can you tell me about that short scale? Is it someone's cittern? How short a scale? I'm curious!

EMS

[zoukboy]

Brian,

Alec Finn plays three coursed Greek Bouzoukis tuned in DAD.

Cheers
Michael

and it's impossible to get that sound without a bowl back.

[michaete]

A question for you,

You say "I've had a 5 course short scale instrument for about a year now and am absolutely loving it." #Can you tell me about that short scale? #Is it someone's cittern? #How short a scale? #I'm curious!

EMS

Well, since you asked....
Mine was made by Herb Taylor. #It has about a 22 inch scale. #There are pictures and more details on it on his website. #www.herbtaylor.com
It's number 44 on the bouzoukis and citterns page. #It has a flat back.
It probably would have been best for me to mention that sooner so that you guys could get a better idea of where I'm coming from.

[Eric Selinger]

Wow--what a beauty! Thanks for leading me to Taylor's website; I hadn't seen his work before.

[BradB]

My Sawchyn octave has a carved top and back. It's a fantastic instrument. The sound is deep, full, resonant, and loud.

You can see it in this thread:
http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin....t=36131

[michaete]

[QUOTE]My Sawchyn octave has a carved top and back. #It's a fantastic instrument. #The sound is deep, full, resonant, and loud.

The way you describe your instrument is similar to the way I'd describe mine. #I've always felt that mine has a pretty "big" sound.
How is the sustain on your's? #I wonder if the carved back has any effect on that vs. a flat back. #I wouldn't say that mine has a whole lot of sustain.
I've heard that the type of wood used can affect whether or not an instrument has a carved back. #Some woods are too hard to carve from my understanding.

[zoukboy]

Well, since you asked....
Mine was made by Herb Taylor.

I met Herb in Dec. He came to a concert I did in Denver and brought several of his very nice instruments. We had a bit of a zouk tasting after my show. I visited him a couple of days later on the way out of town and got to see a bunch of his mandolins which I really liked. I think he's doing some really good work.

[BBarton]

I'll ditto BradB's comment - I have one nearly like his and although I haven't played many and this one is new, sustain is very good.