It must be "just me"

[billkilpatrick]

[QUOTE= (Nolan @ Jan. 03 2007, 19:23)]

well ... there you go ...

for myself, bluegrass has elements of soul - buried way down there, deep down there ... underneath all that flash and macho, self-consciousness and glitz - but unfortunately, only occasionally.

So what do you listen to that isn't those things?

For me, it's more about playing bluegrass and less about playing the mandolin. #I'd rather play another instrument in a bluegrass band than play mandolin in some other genre.

i forgot to mention haste ... what's so important about melody in bluegrass mode that makes it so imperative that it's played at breakneck speed?

bluegrass is the blues... its beyond technique. its soul. however you need to nail down the technique to get to that place where you can let go and play. as for going to a monthly jam and getting sick of the same old songs.. that is because you are not playing with a progressive bunch of people or a progressive additude maybe? for me there are some jams i just wont go to becasue the songs people play just suck! also there is way more to do than just chop and solo. listen to frank wakefeild really closely. the mans comping is amazing. there is plenty of slow bluegrass too...
so really what im trying to say is that your situation maybe hindering your ability to enjoy the grass...
but hey, diversity is the spice of life, but not the only spice.. and this smiley looks like john popper.

dig deeper, and maybe youll find what it is you really like about bluegrass and that will rise above the stuff that makes you feel un-grassy.

ok, i sense some of you have some ill thoughts about bill monroe, and throw out little comments here and there trying to defame him in some way... let me just say this.. from a very serious musicians point of view... bluegrass music was bills vision. it is important that the people playing it work together to get that ONE sound.. unlike lots of jazz (wich i have extensivly listened to and investigated) has turned me OFF because it lacks that ONE sound. its a bunch of musicians going off sort of playing with one another, too much of this and that and not one common goal. it gets way to over embellished and gushes narcisism (sp) at times and can sound like a bunch of noise. old timey music is the same way to me lots of times. i think that bills music is much like that of orchestral music, its like one insturment, one sound, of many insturments working towards the same goal.
as for saying this music was fabricated for the radio or whatever whathave you, id have to strongly dissagree. it is to me a hybrid of influence, personality and creativity. bill is the only one who can really answer to that statement, and man i think that sure would offend him! bills additude was gaurded because he knew how cut throat the music industry was, and didnt want to loose his creation, and he was proud. everybody cant like bluegrass but one thing i think it definatly is not is contrived, or created for any other purpose other than this is who bill was, and who we are as bluegrass pickers.
sorry about the two posts back to back, but this topic is interesting!
word to momma.

[Peter Hackman]

[QUOTE= (billkilpatrick @ Jan. 04 2007, 17:26)]

well ... there you go ...

for myself, bluegrass has elements of soul - buried way down there, deep down there ... underneath all that flash and macho, self-consciousness and glitz - but unfortunately, only occasionally.

So what do you listen to that isn't those things?

For me, it's more about playing bluegrass and less about playing the mandolin. #I'd rather play another instrument in a bluegrass band than play mandolin in some other genre.

i forgot to mention haste ... what's so important about melody in bluegrass mode that makes it so imperative that it's played at breakneck speed?

Speed is a decision, not a stylistic ingredient.
Many people tend to make the wrong decisions.

Some of that really fast stuff (NO NAMES!) is so stiff an predictable,
strictly adhering to barlines, etc. About 35 years ago when I was REALLY fed
up with BG I did things like record Rawhide, myself on guitars and mando,
at something like 60% of the "normal" speed, and just indulged in the
freedom offered by the slower tempos.

[hedding]

ok, i sense some of you have some ill thoughts about bill monroe, and throw out little comments here and there trying to defame him in some way... let me just say this.. from a very serious musicians point of view... bluegrass music was bills vision. it is important that the people playing it work together to get that ONE sound..

I respectfully disagree with that statement. Bluegrass pickers will never forget the amount they owe to Bill. Because, he heavily influenced the start of bluegrass. Lets save the arguement about whether or not he completely created it, even though many of his original ideas were taken from other genres. Thats not the point.

But that doesn't mean that there is only ONE way for bluegrass to be played. The point is Bill alone couldn't keep bluegrass music alive. As far as I am concerned Bill is in debt to all of us in some ways because the music wouldn't be continued if it weren't for us. Why think f bluegrass as this ancient tradition that not be tampered with because it's somehow the pinical of all things created. Whatever genre it is, I don't want to play my break exactly like Bill did because I don't hear it the way he played always. Whether or not Bill wanted to hear the way I played it or just the way he played it doesn't matter to me because its transcended so far beyond him in my opinion. He's a great player and there will never be another Bill but think of what we'd be missing if we all stuck to his way.

I remember this quote from the Bill monroe book I think its "Can't You Hear ME Calling" where Countrney Johnson and Sam Bush were telling Monroe how much his music had influened them and his response was something like "Well I hate that "newgrass" music you guys are playing"

I don't need to hear a flatt g-run after every verse everytime, even though that coincides with tradition. To my ears that gets boring because its not exciting. Exciting to me would be understanding the importance of the g-run and then adding your own contribution to its history and place by inventing your own phrasing of it.

Calling some type of music "his music" just excludes certain people from joining. No one is taking credit away from Bill they just want to be part of the magic that makes bluegrass so fun.

[hedding]

after re-reading your previous two posts I may have misinterpretted. Are you talking about relationships between the intstruments in a bluegrass band achieving a common goal and have one common sound. Or are you talking about bluegrass music in general achieving one common sound?

yes.. talking about the insturments.. not the bands...
its a powerful statement... that one sound.

bill monroe did for the mandolin as what jimi hendrix and stevie ray vaughn did for the strat.
every so often i see a snipet here and there in this BLUEGRASS forum of someone saying something
in a negative context about bill. blows my mind, just a little.
i mean... mull this one over.. here we all are in the BG section of the board....
and yes.. bill is responsible for it all.. he got on that radio and did his thing and
so it began. check the history, if you read cant you hear me callin you should know,
no one else was doing it untill they left his band and started their own.
i have some really old recordings of bill on the oprey off of mirror discs, now thats old school tech!
and just being able to listen to that brings it all together. its crucial.
john popper!

[jim simpson]

John,
You are right, that smiley does look like John Popper!

[Satchel]

Well Said John!

[hellindc]

I like playing bluegrass jams at festivals, but it I would find it boring to play only bluegrass every week at a jam. Fortunately, at our jam, just about anything goes, including bluegrass.

I've been surprised how receptive even the traditional players are to adaptations of Dylan's music. Try adopting some country or folk tunes to bluegrass. That's what keeps Del McCroury's music fresh.

Also, don't "just chop and lead." Play rythym like you want to make who's every leading or singing sound their best.

[Soupy1957]

"One need only point to Monroe - not
because he's the "Father" or "Master" or any of that #### - but becuase
he's ONE example that most bluegrassers are aware of (but not all; I played in a band 39 years ago, and to these guys he was just asomewhat dated figure who sang out of tune)."

-Phew..(sweating)

"Incorrect assumption" -ok, I give.

Once again, I've managed to suggest a topic that has shown that it can gain some moss as it rolls down hill.

"Thanks" to everyone for chiming in and keeping me sane through this funk I'm in.

I especially liked the one suggestion to "buy another Mando"....lol. I've already had "MAS" and don't need it again..it ticks the wife off..lol.

-Soupy1957

P.S. (thinking to himself)...although; I DO have that "M.A.S." sticker I haven't used yet..hmmmmmmmmmm

[bluegrassplayer]

P.S. (thinking to himself)...although; I DO have that "M.A.S." sticker I haven't used yet..hmmmmmmmmmm

What? Is it a coupon for a free $5,000 mandolin? I need to go to the music store real quick.

Micah

[PatrickH]

I've been wondering how many mandolinists are into bluegrass because they play the mandolin and bluegrass is the dominant genre

One vote here. I only started to enjoy bluegrass after I was playing the mandolin for a little while. Now I love to play classical, celtic, bluegrass, fiddle tunes, some jazz and folk on mandolin. It's similar to how I came to appreciate Hawaiian music after taking up the Uke.

My choices are diverse I think because my first love was the instrument. I can certainly understand how people who grew up with bluegrass feel about it. Music styles that you grow up with and love forever tend to get inside your soul. I can see how bluegrass could have that effect.

For me growing up it was Blues/Rock which doesn't have much mando.

[Soupy1957]

Give me Ed Gerhard, or give me death....oops, that's not the quote.
-Soupy1957

[mandozilla]

billkilpatrick
For me, it's more about playing bluegrass and less about playing the mandolin. I'd rather play another instrument in a bluegrass band than play mandolin in some other genre.
RIGHT ON!
Bored with Bluegrass? I maybe bored with mandolin sometimes but not with bluegrass music. Take up one of the other 6 instruments: rhythm guitar, lead guitar, bass fiddle, fiddle, and (eeeew!) the 5 string. Or that contraption they call a Dobro. Still bored? Concentrate on developing your singing chops, lead vocals and harmony. Still bored? Try song writing in the bluegrass style. Still bored? Teach a kid what you know...blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[MT_player]

Just to comment on what a previous poster said about Dawg and Mike Marshall 'getting bored with bluegrass' or something like that. If you watch the movie Grateful Dawg, at the beginning you will see concert footage where Dawg says that he and Jerry each took a cue from Bill Monroe by 'learning to play bluegrass and then going out and finding your own style'.
So I don't think it was an issue of losing interest or anything like that. It seems to me that most successful bluegrass musicians are singers and players. Neither Dawg or Mike sing much at all and they knew that in order to survive, they needed to branch out into other styles. Otherwise they might have wound up as sidemen in various bluegrass band rather than the influential players they are today.

[SternART]

Frank once told me his favorite composer is Beetoshevaski.

[mandopete]

If you watch the movie Grateful Dawg, at the beginning you will see concert footage where Dawg says that he and Jerry each took a cue from Bill Monroe by 'learning to play bluegrass and then going out and finding your own style'. #

At the time I believe Monroe's comment was directed to Frank Wakefield.

Ironically I was listening to Bluegrass Reunion this weekend and thinking about Grisman's approach to playing bluegrass. I think he really holds back on the jazzy stuff and focuses on the melody, but he still retains his own style of playing a bit behind the beat.

[earthsave]

How'd this one get dredged up? Sat idle for over a year.

[mandopete]

IMHO it's symptomatic of the dooldrums we're experiencing on the Cafe lately.

[woodwizard]

Nolan quote: Personally, I never get tired of bluegrass. Sometimes I go on a bluegrass "Fast" but it's just to make it that much sweeter when I come back to it an hour later.
_
Ditto

[Clyde Clevenger]

I never get tired of Bluegrass, or Old Time, or Celtic, or Classical, or Swing, but I tire of Hip Hop, too hard to find the melody. Maybe I'm just under-exposed.

[Steve Perry]

How'd this one get dredged up? #Sat idle for over a year.

It's all Edgerton's fault! #He keeps pushing the search feature. Now everybody's using it and see what happens!.... # #

[Ken Olmstead]

I have been doing my thesis on Monroe style this last year. I will never sound like him! Not a bad thing, just a reality! I hear something different every time I listen to the tunes. That being said mandolin introduced me to bluegrass not the other way around. I have been dealing with an injury that pretty much takes me out of guitar playing. Mandolin is no problem but guitar is painful. So, I have felt the need to move songs over from the guitar to the mandolin lately and that corresponded to needing a BG break. Been listening to some of my old favorites lately: Johnny Smith, Kenny Burrell, Freddie King, the Beatles, Peter Green and Eric Clapton. I know that after a couple weeks, I will be back to BG with a renewed vengence but nothing wrong with a little side diversion! I am also listening to some John Hartford fiddleing and the Dawg/Statman Jewish stuff for mandolin content but different from BG. I totally understand!

[MandoBen]

How'd this one get dredged up? #Sat idle for over a year.

As long as we're back on it, why don't we ask Soupy1957 how everything is going since Dec, 2006 when he started this topic. Still tired of Bluegrass? Find a new style to work on? I hope you didn't quit mandolin all together.