Octave mando scale length?

[Quavers]

I'm looking at building an octave mandolin, and was wondering if anyone had comments on different scale lengths. Is there an optimum one or does it depend on other factors, such as string guage etc etc?

[oldwave maker]

I use 21.5", when capoed at the 5th gives a 16" scale mandola, strings 47-34-23-13 are my favorite for this scale. built 22.875 and 24.9 in the distant past, too much first position stretch for melody playing, as if I could play melodies on it!

[PaulD]

It seems from my research that 21" to 23.5" are pretty much the "standard" range (are there really any standards?). I played a very nice Arches that was custom built for a woman with smallish hands that I think was 20.75" or so, and Chris told me that was about as short as he was comfortable going while still getting the tone*. I've played a Weber Sage II with a 21" or 21.5" scale, which is very playable, but their standard length for the Sage is 23.5". I bought my wife a Minstrel which is also 23.5" and both my wife and I find that playable (she has smallish hands whereas I've got long, fat fingers). It also has a nicer bottom end than the Sage had, but that's probably as much material (Cedar/Sapele vs. Spruce/Maple) as the scale length.

If (or when) I build one I'll start with the scale length and then determine the optimal string gauge.

pd

* BTW: He nailed the tone! That is one fine sounding instrument with a full tone and great range!

[otterly2k]

Quavers-- a cool thing about OM's is that they are not as standardized as some other instruments. There is quite a bit of variation... from about 20" scale to about 23"... longer than that generally qualifies as a bouzouki. Mine are both just about 20.5"...on the short end of the spectrum so that I (with small stubby fingers) can switch easily back and forth between melodic playing and rhythmic/chordal accompaniment. I use string gauges 14-24-34-46 for this scale length.

I'd say that 22.5" is probably as close to standard for OM's as we get in this niche of mando-dom. The only pre-assembled sets of OM strings are generally geared for this scale (usually around 12-22-32-46). It's a consideration if you want it to be easy to get strings.

If you are making this instrument for yourself, I'd suggest trying out some different scales to see what feels right for you. In general, the shorter scale you go, the more "mandolinish" the tone (e.g. shorter decay) and the thicker strings you need for proper tenstion. The longer the scale, the more "guitarish" tone (more sustain, etc.) and the lighter strings you need for proper tension. There are variations even within this, instrument by instrument, of course. But IMHO, if you can't reach what you want to play, it's all MOOT! I'd start with the scale that feels right, and then when it's done, look for the string gauges that feel and sound best.

BTW, Paul, I expect that was Judith's Arches OM that you played. And I'll vouch for it...it's an excellent instrument with a great tone that has been described by several tasters as "punchy". The scale is close to 21".

[PaulD]

BTW, Paul, I expect that was Judith's Arches OM that you played. And I'll vouch for it...it's an excellent instrument with a great tone that has been described by several tasters as "punchy". The scale is close to 21".

Yup... that's the one. I think Chris did a wonderful job with both the tone and appearance. IIRC, it's just under 21"... 20.75" or 20.875". He's got our deposit to have one built, but since my wife's happy with the Minstrel we need to decide what else we "need". Maybe a shorter scale OM, Mandola, GOM, or the other direction (Bouzouki, Mando-cello... if he's game).
pd

[otterly2k]

Tough call, Paul... good luck with that~!

[Jack Roberts]

Take a look at this picture. This is a Calace tenor mandola, tuned GDAE, the same as an Octive mandolin. It is about the same scale length (16 inches, maybe), as mandolas in this country, but with heavy strings, it plays in the octave mandolin range.

[Quavers]

Thanks for the comments. It is for one I intend to play myself. I tend to prefer lighter strings (yes I am a lightweight) so it sounds like a scale length towards 23" will be best.

I'm also looking at trying to come up with something a little different body shape-wise. At the moment my inspiration well has run dry though!!

[otterly2k]

Quavers, you can put lighter strings on any scale instrument... you lose some "oomph" in doing so, but gain ease of fretting. If your hands are on the biggish side, you should have no problem with 23". However, trying out different scales before building could save you some serious heartache later.

Just my 2c. Good luck with your project.
KE

[Graham McDonald]

A standard Martin guitar scale with two (or is it three?) frets chopped off is around a 22" scale, which means that you can buy a slotted guitar fingerboard and just trim it to length. 22" is a good length for melody playing with reasonable sized hands

cheers

graham

[PaulD]

It seems to me you could also capo your (or somebody else's) guitar to approximate the scale length you're after and try the fret spacing on for size. Of course the neck width won't match, but you can at least get a feel for how much stretch the fingering will take.

Otterly2k said:

Tough call, Paul... good luck with that~!

I know... it's a tough dilemma!

pd

[otterly2k]

Personally, I don't think the guitar-with-capo experiment gives a very good sense of what it's like to play an OM that scale... you can't capture the feel of 5ths tuning and double courses. But if you can get your hands on a zouk, the capo experiment is a good way for getting a feel for different scales.

also-- re: the pre-slotted guitar fretboard... that won't be the right width. could go that route and modify it, tho.
KE