Bowlbacks of Note

[Ausdoerrt]

Curious bowlback sighted, again, on local Ukrainian listings. Odd/ugly inlay on top, but cool-looking bowl and tuners.




P.S. Found this article tracing other instruments with such inlays: http://memoriesoftheinnocentage.blog...y-on-boat.html

So it's likely that on the one I listed, someone had the bright idea of retouching the inlay *shakes head*


P.S. Any idea on what such an instrument would be worth?

[Jim Garber]

P.S. Any idea on what such an instrument would be worth?

I have an idea of worth but I would probably say not much. That colorized inlay is not so exciting esp if if was done after-market and it looks like the neck might be warped. The bowl looks pretty good but this is at best a middle-grade mandolin. Puglisi mandolins are generally considered among the better of the Catania/Sicilian ones but I am not convinced that this is a Puglisi and even it it were one would still not be worth that much. I think you know that this would not be a treasure but, assuming it didn't need much work (like neck straightening) it might be a nice playble mandolin. I don't mind it if it were just pearl, but the inlay is pretty garish with that color.

[Ausdoerrt]

Oh, I'm almost convinced that inlay was "retouched" by the looks of it, horrible job, too. I'm probably passing on it unless the seller drops the price significantly (which eventually happens to just about all old mandos sold 'round these parts)

[Jairo Ramos]

I bought this mandolin, and I am so happy because is my first bowlback! To find mandolins in my country is impossible, a friend found this for me in Venezuela, where there is a mandolin culture. The label is Horugel, the name is in the headstock. I google it, but only found that this company is closed and made pianos. I think that maybe can find information here.

A luthier is making a bone nut and making a setup, the action is hight but playable, maybe is not the original bridge.

[Bill Clements]

Nice looking mandolin, Jairo!
Welcome to the Cafe.

[Jim Garber]

I would guess that bridge should be positioned a little closer to the cant (bend) in the top.

[Jairo Ramos]

It's weird, but in that position is the 12th fret distance, and give a perfect entonation. My guess was the same, the bridge should be closer to the cant, as I saw in all bowlbacks mandolin in this forum. The luthier thinks the same. Maybe with the new bone nut, and the setup of the bridge for a better action, the intonation change and the bridge must be repositioned?

By the way, Mr. Garber, do you know something about this mandolin label (Horugel)?

[Jim Garber]

Normally, the bridge placement should be further back but if it intonates properly where it is then that is correct.

I only know about Horugel what I found on a quick search: evidently a distributor selling imported mandolins in Germany. Some seem to be made in Korea and some in eastern Europe. Do you like the tone and quality of the mandolin?

I am very interested in the music of Colombia. I have listened to the accordion music from Vallenato for years. Do yo play any Colombian tunes on mandolin? I know there are some fretted instruments that are used in traditional music in your country, like tiple and bandola, tuned in fourths instead of fifths like the mandolin. A few are pictured here.

[Jairo Ramos]

Yes, Mr. Garber, the sound and quality of the mandolin is good, is my first bowlback and I am very happy. I began studying music with the bandola, 16 strings, now the bandolas are made of 12 strings, and played a lot of our music. I am from the Andean zone of the country, so I began playing pasillos, bambucos, danzas, etc. The vallenato is from the north coast, atlantic coast of the country, the accordeon is a modern addition.

My great-grandfather was one of the developpers of the Tiple (Pedro Leon Franco), at the beginning of the XX century. He made popular the Bambuco in México, fighting with Pancho Villa.

[Ausdoerrt]

Here's a "curiosity": a Soviet-made mandolin that actually doesn't look like crap. Obvious rip-off of Calace, too. "Lviv Musical Instrument Factory" label inside.



I've heard that the Soviet musical instrument factories used to have "export models" of higher quality, but this is my first time seeing one on sale.

[brunello97]

Well, if you're going to rip someone off, Calace is a good place to start.

The bowl itself looks quite nice, particularly the aft end.

Mick

[vic-victor]

Here is another decent-looking one made for export by Chernigov factory in Ukraine (USSR back then).

[brunello97]

Muy cool double O Ring soundhole, Victor.

Mick

[Ausdoerrt]

I feel like I've seen this around the internets before, but that crazy rosette design never fails to impress

[vic-victor]

Both are after German prototypes, I think. I've seen German double ring one (the oval holes though). I would not be surprised if Ukrainian factories had their people travelling to Saxony factories for inspiration. It was quite possible during the Eastern-bloc days.

[Jim Garber]

Here's a 1902 Model 5 Embergher in need of restoration on eBay Italy. You would think the seller would have taken some larger photos for such a highend mandolin.

[brunello97]

Here's a 1902 Model 5 Embergher in need of restoration on eBay Italy. You would think the seller would have taken some larger photos for such a highend mandolin.

Sold for $4400.

Needs a major overhaul but certainly worth it. The maple bowl is fabulous to my eye. When I see the slotted headstock on these higher end Emberghers it only makes the bottle opener headstock versions appear even sillier to me. This design is pure elegance.

Mick

[plinkey]

This very nice Embergher mandolin is on eBay currently, and the auction is running for another few days.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mandoline-19...0AAOSw44BYCgUb
The mandolin appears to be all original too. Unfortunately, a few of its bowl staves are cracked, and that sort of repair would be very hard to conceal. (Tavy and I exchanged briefly a few thoughts about the mandolin.) Be that as it may, since we are looking at an upper spec Embergher in otherwise good condition, I'd expect it will sell for a pretty penny despite the broken bowl.

[brunello97]

This looks in good shape but for the Humpty Dumpty back. The fluted maple Embergher bowls are really pretty.

Will be interesting to see what this sells for. No need for All the King's Men. John could get this back in primo condition.

Mick

[Martin Jonas]

Very pretty -- an orchestral No. 3, I think. Will be interesting to see how much it sells for.

Condition looks good except for the back. I would think that's difficult to repair invisibly, but a structurally sound repair should be possible as there aren't any particular forces acting on that part of the back. I wonder how one can get that sort of crack on the back (which is pretty sturdy) without any apparent damage to the more vulnerable parts of the mandolin.

Martin

[Tavy]

This looks in good shape but for the Humpty Dumpty back. The fluted maple Embergher bowls are really pretty.

Will be interesting to see what this sells for. No need for All the King's Men. John could get this back in primo condition.

Umm well... not sure about primo, but a decent player certainly, much harder to disguise repairs in broken maple ribs than rosewood ones.

As for how it got that way... maybe an argument with a mandola player?

[Bruce Clausen]

... or maybe a mandolin riot like this famous guitar scene (Carullists vs. Molinists)?

[brunello97]

Umm well... not sure about primo, but a decent player certainly, much harder to disguise repairs in broken maple ribs than rosewood ones.

As for how it got that way... maybe an argument with a mandola player?

Well, John, the happy new owner will have years of fun making up stories about what might have happened. Could have been a fire poker.

Mick

[plinkey]

much harder to disguise repairs in broken maple ribs than rosewood ones.

How awkward would it be to glue up the cracks without a good support from inside the mandolin ? Have you ever used maple wood filings mixed with glue to a paste-like consistency as a crack filler ? Then, of course, there is commercially available "plastic woods" too, I've used those on a few old beat-up wooden cases for mandolins, but never on instruments themselves. The stuff I've had shrinks as it dries, plus I could not get it sanded smooth.

[Jim Garber]

My 1904 No. 3 in rosewood probably had similar bowl fractures. Mine had what looked like an amateur repair using Plastic Wood as a filler. Kurt DeCorte did the restoration of that area and did an excellent job, tho, as John noted, it might be easier to cosmetically hide the repair on a dark wood than a light one. Still I would think it would be possible and it looks like that part of the bowl did not have prior repairs which might be an advantage. I would say even a short drop off a table could cause that damage. If the mandolin was in a stable situation temperature and humidity wise, it may be possible that it might not need much in the way of filler. I guess only in-hand examination with tell, for sure.

I love the No.3 I have and I am sure that this one could be a nice one, too.