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Thread: Loar Picture of the Day

  1. #951
    Formerly F5JOURNL Darryl Wolfe's Avatar
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    Here's the best I have Brian
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    mandoryan.. No the Masters do not have this dovetail corner.

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    Thanks Mav. Interesting..
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  4. #954
    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    Mandoryan, I think the *distressed* masters do have that detail. Charlie showed me his personal distressed master model Gibson, and if I'm not mixing it up with his Loar (easy to do!) I believe I saw that detail on his distressed.

    Incidentally, a lot of you guys probably already know this.. but having played about 6 2002-2004 Gibson F5s next to two different Loars a few days ago, my hat is off to Charlie and crew. I am a complete believer. The stuff they are making now sounds spectacular! We did some blind tests against Charlie's Loar (no virzi) and Jack's (virzi) and it was *very* hard to pick the new ones out against the originals.

    If Charlie doesn't mind, I got a video clip of him wailing on a bluegrass piece that I could post somewhere soon!

    It was wonderful to not only meet Charlie, but then to hear him rip into a pair of Loars and 3 new F5s in his office.. Gibson mandolins are in very good hands

    I got some nice pictures of Charlie's Loar, and a couple new ones of the ones at Gruhn's that I'll post soon as well
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    I don't know, Dan....

    I wasn't playing very well that day.

    Of course, my Loar isn't a Loar. Just very soon after he left. Enjoyed you and Jack coming by and I've just got to say, "Wow !", that Virzi Fern is terrific.

    Charlie

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    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    Well Charlie, I'd hate to catch you on a good day then!

    Glad I came to see you after we recorded, I'd have felt too down on my chops to have the right attitude in the studio after hearing you.

    You were smokin'
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    Hey all, Jack here.
    Dan, thanks for our days in Nashville, they were great. #By the way 76547 says he misses you already #How is the three point? #Watching 76547 and his partner, the March 31, 1924 Loar guitar, being played at Gruhn was an experience also.
    Being the rookie I am to all of this I was truly blown away listening to the mandolin playing of Dan, Charlie D., Chipper Thompson, Big Joe, Tim O'Brien & Brent Pruitt.
    Charlie and Big Joe, thanks for all the insight into 76547's history. #It really educated me and makes me appreciate what it truly is. #
    As Dan said, you folks at Gibson are putting out some great mandolins and if there is anything I can do to assist you let me know. #And, if that day was a bad day for your playing I would love to hear you on a good day. #
    Thanks again to everyone that I met in Nashville and I hope to see you all again some time.
    Jack Schultz

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    C'mon, Charlie, let Dan post the video! We'd love to hear ya pick!
    Fred

  9. #959
    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    Here's a very interesting instrument, F5 #81250.





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  10. #960
    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    That one is Charlie's personal F5 A fine sounding instrument!
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    A pic' of Charlie, Dan and I when we were visiting the folks at Gibson with 76547.
    Jack Schultz

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    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    I feel like "Danny No-Loar" in that picture
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    we'll just call you "Pokey no Loar No More"
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  14. #964
    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    Ah, the good old days..

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  15. #965
    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    Charlie had a try on 76547 as well that day, sure sounded good
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  16. #966
    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    Here're Charlie and Dan R playing in Charlie's office. The number of super-fine F5s on hand that day boggles the imagination.. even though we only added one to the multitudes when we walked in

    I bet people will be talking about "Derrington's" in 50 years just like we talk about Loars.
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  17. #967
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    Quote Originally Posted by (danb @ Aug. 10 2004, 09:32)
    I feel like "Danny No-Loar" in that picture
    Not only that, but they mispelled your name too dude!
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    Charlie or Dan:

    Tell us about 81250, please. Beautiful back, looks sweet (in the Archive photos). Is it an "unsigned Loar"? It looks awful similar to 81290, posted recently. I guess they're cousins.

  19. #969
    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    I believe Charlie's out of town at the moment, but I'll chime in with the little I know.. Charlie's F5 is slightly post-Loar.. so call it unsigned or "post-loar" if you will, it's basically near-identical spec to an original Loar, just missing the label, and by inference, Lloyd's stamp of approval. It's a super-fine instrument, spectacular bluegrass chop & tone. Very clear notes, easy to get tone out of it, easy on the eyes.

    The "unsigned loar" label often is used to mean that it's pretty much identical to a Loar spec, and either post loar in terms of serial range or sometimes from the 22-24 range but with no signature. Personally, i think that "a Loar" is only "a Loar" if it has the signature.. so that "unsigned Loar" terminology is a little misleading perhaps.

    I'd be interested to hear what Darryl & Charlie and other Loar experts think about how the signature process worked.. is it known that Lloyd rejected anything? Were there "seconds" back then? At what point were the labels affixed.. were they signed through the F-hole or outside and then glued in?
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    I don't believe that Loar "rejected" anything, as there really was no need in it. Or if he ever did it was a very rare occasion. The mandolins they were building were all quite good, abeit, some better than others (read subjective). The unsigned phenom was simply mandos in process, built to the exact same specs. Sans the signature due to the fact Loar was no longer there. Is it a Loar? Same animal. No signature. Would it have been signed had Loar still been there? I believe it no doubt would have. BUT he wasn't and it ain't. That is exactly why the term "unsigned Loar" is so fitting to these 13(?) mandolins that fall into that category. This term is not suitable to the true 1925 and later Ferns with the white binding and lacquer. They are a different animal. This is just my humble opinion.
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    And humble it is

  22. #972
    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    Amazing how much value that little piece of paper adds to the price. To me the most interesting thing about the Loars is the sound.. and that's not unique to signed instruments (though it sure does occur in high frequency on the signed ones.. I haven't met a "dog loar" yet, though I've heard the occasional rumor).

    Loar signed instruments span from serials 70281-80416.. and there are quite a few "leakers" after that period that have some or all of the hallmarks of the Loars. 85370 is an interesting fern with ivoroid binding (the overspray makes it look a little funny in the pictures)... There are many other examples.

    The fact that the Loar instruments were at the time a commercial flop goes a way toward explaining some of the "post-Loar Loars" in my view.. extra production could easily have been shipped later. There are many examples of "obsolete" designs coming out later, such as F4 #11051, which is a teens style F4 with an 'aughts style (orville label/3 pointer) peghead inlay.

    In my mind, the source of the market value of the Loars come from the fact that they have extremely detailed provenance and a long history of being considered the very best.. coupled with the fact that there are so few of them.

    As far as value in tone/beauty for the dollars, the ferns & unsigned Loars have had a great big bump lately, and there are great ones being made at the fraction of the price new under Charlie's chisel these days
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    What about the sound? In my very limited experience with vintage F5's, I've had a chance to play an "unsigned Loar", signed Loars and a couple of Ferns. The "unsigned" is completely Loar-like in sound, and totally different than the Ferns. It shares the darker, more complex tones that the Loars have (no offense intended to Fern owners/lovers).

  24. #974
    Formerly F5JOURNL Darryl Wolfe's Avatar
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    Brian has summed it up. The terminology is informally assigned to those instrument that look and feel and sound like a Loar.

    One other thing to mention is that this group of instruments usually has the flowerpot inlay. Generally speaking anything post Loar is a fern, so the presence of the flowerpot says Loar Loar Loar. There are however a few post Loar instruments with a Fern that could qualify as "unsigned Loars", but the verbal label or moniker is not usually assigned to them.
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  25. #975
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    And then there is that extermely rare batch of Fern Loars.
    Almost in a league unto their own. More Loar than Ferns these babies seemed to have been Loar's vision of what the F5 should become.

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