advice on pull-offs

[T.T. Brown]

I've had lots of trouble achieving satisfying sounding pull-offs, especially when I am pulling off completely and leaving an open string to ring. Any advice? My hammers sound pretty good. I once heard/read that you need to pull your finger down (away from the lower half of the neck, towards your feet) a bit when pulling off to "snap" the string, but I'm having trouble getting this. Thanks in advance. This problem is killing my ability to play jigs the way they're supposed to sound.

[JGWoods]

From what others tell me there isn't much use of pull offs in mandolin playing, those notes get picked. Coming from the banjo world I find ther's a lot less hammers and pulls in mando playing. I have real tough finger pads and can do them, but I don't do it much and in does shred callouses pretty well when I do it.

[250sc]

I sometimes pull off like you discribed, pulling towards my feet and sometimes do the opposite. You will just have to practice it both ways.

BTW, I disagree with JGWoods feeling that this technique "isn't much use" with mandolin but whatever works for you is cool.

[John Flynn]

I also disagree that "there isn't much use of pull offs in mandolin play." I use them all the time and they are great. I also see them occasionally in tab. There are some tunes I play that pretty much require them. I do not "pull the string down to snap the string," although I am familiar with that technique on electric guitar. I pick the string and quickly pull off. Like a lot of other techniques, it is just timing. There is one tune I do with a two note pull off, that is, pick one note, pull off to a lower note and then pull off to yet a lower note, all on one pick stroke. I will say that it works better for a fast series of notes, like 16th or 32nd notes. They really don't "ring" with any kind of sustain, but they do sound clearly.

[Tom C]

I agree with jflynnstl. Boys of Bluehill starts right of with a pulloff. I have problem with the ones that do not end on the open string. Alot of Jonny Statts first cd is full of pull offs. One of my favorites is Schafer's Reel. Especially at the end of the "C" part. The pull offs are what makes it.

[Bob DeVellis]

I find that, on the bass strings,I fare better with a "push off," with my finger traveling toward my head. Pull-offs work fine on the trebles. A good way to start pull-offs is to just fret the F# on the E string, pluck it, and then pull off. You can initially let the F# have its full duration. But then try pulling off quickly so that the F# has only an instantaneous duration, with it and the E really making up a single sound, kind of like "pyong" with the "p" being the F#'s sound. Once that's nice and consistent, hold the F# with the index finger and put your ring finger on the 5th fret (A). Now, pluck with the pick and immediately pull off the ring finger, sounding a quick A and a sustained F# -- another "pyong" with the "p" corresponding to the brief A. Once that's good, find a tune you know well where you can insert the movements. Then, try it on different strings. The E string is easiest because it's thin and because there isn't another string to worry about hitting when you pull off. When you try doing the same moves on the A string, for example, you need not to have your fingers sound the E string as they pull off the A. But find one place in a tune where each of these maneuvers can be placed and just practice, practice, practice. As I said, when you go to D, try the second-fret fifth-fret maneuver (hold down both frets and push off the fifth, sounding G then a sustained E) with a push instead of a pull. Find what works, then practice, practice, practice. It'll come.

I can feel your pain. I've been working on long rolls, which entail picking the string fretted atthe second fret, hammering onto the fifth fret and instantly pulling off the fifth fret note to fretted second fret, then instantly pulling off that fret to open string, then picking the string again, fretted at the second fret. Whew! That entails getting 4 distinct sounds on one pick stroke and then a final sound by picking again, all within the duration of 3 8th notes. It's driving me nuts. I can't get all the bits to work together properly. Getting enough energy for each of the two pull-offs to sound without smacking into the adjacent pair of strings is murder. But, again, practice, practice, practice is the key. And if I ever get it sounding the way I want, it'll be great fun to sprinkle these into tunes in various places.

[JGWoods]

It works so much easier on the fiddle.
On the mandolin I do a number of hammer on-off moves but I think of them as different than a pull off where you sound the note with your left hand.
Clawhammer banjo playing uses phantom pull offs at times where you don't bring the right hand into play at all, just pull off with the left( assuming a right handed player here).

[John Flynn]

I do the latter, but the former is a valid technique also. I have used the "pluck" on electric guitar, but it doesn't suit me on mando. It would seem to me that the "pluck" would be better for a longer, louder note, but that is hard to get on a mando, at least for me. But if I wanted that general effect, I would prefer a slide down or a just a second pick stroke. For me, the "lift-off" is better for a fast run-down on a quick series notes. There is no right or wrong answer here. It's what you can get to work and how it sounds. I would put some time into trying both and see what works for you.

[Bob DeVellis]

I think I tend more toward a pluck but I basically agree with Mando Johnny. Do what works. The lift-off is pretty subtle, which is good sometimes but perhaps too understated in some situations. It really depends on the sound you're after in a particular situation. Ideally, I like to get my hand so that it does what I want and lets me just produce the desired aural effect without giving a whole lot of thought to the technique. I'm there for single pull-offs and triplets but not even close for long rolls. I just find triplets so much easier than long rolls for filling the same amount of musical space that I've pretty much ignored the latter. Now, I feel like I really need to get to the point where I can do them so I can base my choice more on what sounds best rather than what's easiest.

[Mike Buesseler]

When Bob DeVellis pipes in with ANYthing, I usually just relax and read it, because he will cover it well and thoroughly. Today is no exception. So, I agree with Bob on pull-offs: do whatever it takes to get the sound you want.

For the best example of this I have heard, listen to ANYthing by Simon Mayor, especially his instructional stuff. He gets at least as good tone as anyone I've heard--oh, and he uses pull-offs going up and down, depending upon which string he's on.

[250sc]

Listen to Simon play Wasps Reel in the MP3 file on this site.

[handpicked]

my $.02...I've been playing guitar and mando so long that I have trouble analyzing my playing...but...I have noticed that pull-offs seem harder on instruments with very low action, for some reason...seems like I can't get the right "grip" with the fingertip to get the pluck...same thing with string bending on guitar...I know it doesn't seem sensible (how can the action matter when a note is fretted, right?)....but that has been my experience...
BTW I also use pull offs all the time on mando...more so in open positions than closed...especially in the key of D...and certain G runs, as well...

[Peter Hackman]

From what others tell me there isn't much use of pull offs in mandolin playing, those notes get picked. Coming from the banjo world I find ther's a lot less hammers and pulls in mando playing. I have real tough finger pads and can do them, but I don't do it much and in does shred callouses pretty well when I do it.

I use pull-offs and double pull-offs a LOT in my
own playing, they're very useful devices
for setting things in motion, as it were.
Actually, as I don't play very fast, or
lots of notes, I try to do more with them
('tain't what you do, etc.)

(And triple pull-offs
without using open strings would be a
true challenge ...)


Hammer-ons is a different
matter, very hard to make them sound convincing,
and I envy those who do.

[JGWoods]

I think we might have established that there's a difference between a "lift off" and a "pull off".
On a lift off you are running on the energy from one right hand picking motion and trying to keep it going through 2-3-10 notes. On a pull off you sound the note with your left hand (fingering hand)- so much for semantics.

I think of lift offs as useful for grace notes, decorations, and the like with each suceeding note quieter than the one before it.

A good pull off can sound just as loud as a picked note.

General technique- Hammer straight down
Pull off sideways. Whether you go sideways so that your hand is closing or opening would be a matter of practice and finding what works best for you. For me it is almost always a closing move, pulling down you might say.

I agree that the string height- action- makes a difference and that it is easier to really sound a pull off on a high action. You get a better purchase on the strings before the pull.

My fiddle teacher is also a fine mandolin player- he is the one who told me that hammers and pulls are less used on mandolin- and I gathered ( rightly or wrongly) that he thought they showed poor technique, that good mandolin players pick those notes rather than using hammers and pulls. Certainly the challenge is to get the proper emphasis on the note. If you mean the notes to be grace notes and decorations I can see the point of pulls and hammers, but if you want to emphasize a note you need to pick it, perhaps using the alternate techniques to set up the opportunity to hit the emphasized note with the pick.

I often find grace notes appearing without intending them as they just sound out from hand movements as you go from note to note.

[Martin Jonas]

There is a distinct difference here between genres, and also in whether you're playing amplified or unamplified. In classical mandolin playing, left-hand ornamentation (pull-off and hammer-ons) are very rarely used indeed and all ornaments, trills etc are usually fully picked. This has partially to do with tone (classical players like to have each micro-note ringing out clearly and separately) and partially with volume. Pull-offs on a bowlback mandolin in a concert hall are simply a wasted effort as nobody will hear them. It's different if you're playing into a microphone or in a small enough room that everybody hears what you're doing. Jazz mandolin playing, on the other hand, is virtually unthinkable without heavy use of left-hand ornamentation. Ornamentation in Irish and Scottish playing is a bit ambivalent, as the mandolin sits about halfway between the fiddle (where ornamentation is virtually compulsory) and the tenor banjo (where a more strident unornamented style is common). Different players approach the mandolin from different sides of that divide and get good results.

Speaking personally, I find pull-offs largely frustrating as I don't get them loud enough to carry. Hammer-ons and (in some situations) hammer-on/pull-off combinations work fairly well for me if I get the timing just right. My preferred left-hand ornament is the slide, though, as I find the volume issues to be much less critical, whether on bowlback or on F-style.

Martin

[danb]

I think the trick is to not use your fretting fingertip, use the bit just below the callus to "grab" it, then pull away. I do them like crazy these days, they are a very nice "middle note" to triplets (especially in reels where down/up down/up pattern sounds the best)

"Note, hammer-on, pull off" is also an important step one to playing rolls on the mandolin

I also find this works best with lower action and small vintage-style frets.. big frets & higher action makes that move into a little cheese grater for your fingertip

[AlanN]

Listen to Jethro on Rip-Off. He does his super pull-offs throughout, down to open strings (5 to 0) and from 12 to 7. You get in sort of a groove with these things that can indeed drive the beat.