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Thread: Sam Bush DVD not in pitch

  1. #1
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    I need your help again.. I bought(2) of the DVD issue of Sam Bush "The Mandolin Method" #and neither one is in pitch. I returned the first one due to the pitch and a defect in disc (1) that wouldn't play the last 3rd of the disc. #When the second one arrived I was thoroughly disappointed when the pitch #was 4 clicks flat. #Has anyone else bought this DVD and experienced the same trouble? #I have tested other DVD's and they are in pitch so it isn't the new player. #I also tested the pitch on different players using different tuners. #All with the same pitiful result. #I'm hoping I have received DVD's from the same lot and they are all defective and not that the DVD was issued so far out of pitch. #Please tell me someone has the DVD in pitch?
    Pick on..... but in pitch
    Lakedog mando

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    My copy is OK. I got mine about 1.5 year ago.

    WBL

  3. #3
    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    lakedog,

    You may want to check your tuner. I may be way off base here, but my tuner has a "calibration" setting that (for some reason) lets people tune to something other than concert pitch (i.e., A-440). I mention this 'cause I had mine bumped onto something like 442 setting and (needless to say) was not in tune to others.

    Then again. . . . .

    f-d
    ¡papá gordo ain’t no madre flaca!

    '20 A3, '30 L-1, '97 914, 2012 Cohen A5, 2012 Muth A5, '14 OM28A

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    oh....i didn't realize that someone was actually checking it against a tuner.

    seems to me it would be difficult to do seeing how the DVD was mastered, balanced, etc.

    when I play along with the DVD (mando in tune) it sounds consistent to me. also, don't forget that ole Hoss has a tone of it's own; which may make the ear think it it off.

    hope this helps....

    WBL

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    Registered User adgefan's Avatar
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    I was sure I'd read of this problem before so I did a bit of digging and found the following on the Flatpick-L list. You're not the only one to have noticed, though it's strange that so many haven't noticed when Homespun have admitted the mistake!

    Link to the Homespun thread on Flatpick-L

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    hmmm....interesting....will have to check that out for myself.


    wasn't Mr. Monroe known for not tuning to pitch sometimes also??? I thought I read that one time but could be wrong....


    WBL

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    Say it ain't so.... that just sucks...
    Thank you for sharing the information from Homespun. So it's either keep a mando tuned flat or do without. Dang!!!
    Pick on..
    Lakedog mando

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    consider it tuning practice!
    Mandolins:
    Mid-mo M11 (#1855)
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    New flute CD:
    Wellsprings 2: Joyful!

  9. #9
    Registered User Coy Wylie's Avatar
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    I bought this set when it first came out a couple of years ago. Yes, Hoss is a little flat, but its not that big of a deal. The point of the DVD is that Sam plays the tune slowly, you pause playback and work on what he played. You don't have to play along with Sam. Even if you did, just tune with him at the beginning. If I remember right, Sam talks a lot about training your ear anyway.

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    Dump the tracks into The Amazing Slowdowner and fine tune it there.

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    My mandolin player filled in on a gig with a local band a couple of weeks ago. When he got there, they were already playing so he busted out his Intellitouch tuner. The banjo player noticed him & said "oh, don't bother tuning with that thing…we're all about a quarter tone flat"

    I don't know how they came to that consensus, but I guess some guys just pull their tuning notes out of the air. Our fiddle player used to do that, but he always seemed to nail A=440.

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    I heard somewhere that, from a classical point of view, a concert pitch A was no longer = 440 and, over the years, it had drifted upwards. Our accordian players freshly tuned box is certainly higher than A=440. As for tuners, I have two of these, one on each side of my head!

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    What's "four clicks"?
    Can you put this into Hertz please?
    Just curious how much off we're talking about.
    Wye Knot

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    Registered User Tom C's Avatar
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    You're not crazy.

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  16. #15
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    Lee... 4 clicks = 2 cents or 436. Clicks may be jargon.
    Pick on
    Lakedog mando

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    I have the same DVD and it is not in tune with my tuners and I own three different tuners.

    It is probably master a little off pitch. I have run into a lot of CD's that are like that too.

    With Sam's DVD all you have to do is tune up with him at the beginning of the DVD, it takes like 2 minutes at most.

    I don't have a problem with it. I bought the DVD to learn Get Up John and Brillancy. As long as i get the tab and shown how to play it thats all i am worried about.

  18. #17
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    It's been a while since I read about this so I may be wrong, the frames per second may be out slightly, but...

    It could be due to the regional coding. From what I can remember in the US dvds run at 26 frames per second I think? Over here in the uk they run at 24 frames per second. So when US films are converted for region 2 dvds they are sped up slightly to fit in with the 24 frames a second, so the sound is slightly higher...but usually not noticable. I'm guessing the dvd will be region 0 if it's a music dvd and so most likely converted to 24 frames per second. This could be the reason why it's out.

    Again, I could be completely wrong and maybe I've just made this up lol. Maybe someone who knows more about this can explain?
    I'm never speaking up again, it only hurts me.

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    Just a clarification....

    Movies are filmed at 24 frames per second.

    PAL DVDs and TVs (Europe mostly) operate at 25 frames per second. This ends up to be about 5% speedup from 24 fps which also affects the pitch (I think about half of half a step upwards..but I'm not sure). I think this may be more change than what is happening on the Sam Bush dvd (2 cents).

    NTSC (North America and Japan) operate TVs and DVDs at 30 frames per second. It uses a method to convert 24 fps (film) to 30 fps while keeping the pitch the same as the source.

    I'd imagine that the Bush DVD, however, was recorded using a 30 fps video recorder...so none of this should be relevent. If it was recorded on a PAL video camera, the pitch would be sharp. I guess Sammy just decided to tune by ear that day and was a little off.

  20. #19
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    Well, I think it's intentional personally. I think Sam wants you to tune by ear. Use a little nature is what my instructors have told me in the past when I busted out an electronic tuner to tune with... Given the fact that I've watched several of these homespun videos for entertainment more than anything, all the rest of them have been close to perfect regarding the tuners. The Sam Bush one was the only one I've seen that wasn't.
    Philip Halcomb

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