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Thread: Strap peg keeps popping out

  1. #1

    Default Strap peg keeps popping out

    The strap peg at the bottom of my eastman keeps popping out. Any non-permenant (i.e. no glue) ways to get that sucker to stay??

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Strap peg keeps popping out

    Shim it with small pieces of paper, push back in gently. The important thing is to not push it into the tail block hard, or drop the instrument onto the endpin, I remember people splitting tailblocks on fiddles like that.

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    Default Re: Strap peg keeps popping out

    I haven't worked on an Eastman, but many builders neglect properly fitting the end pins. The holes are often straight through instead of tapered. I first fit the end pin such that the hole is tapered to match the pin and the collar just seats flush. That will keep it from accidentally going in too far if dropped. Then I put a tiny drop of Titebond, smaller than a match head, and seat the pin. That small amount of glue will not keep you from removing the pin if you want to, but it will keep it from coming out accidentally. I remove them with padded pliers when needed.

    BTW, I only use glue on plastic or bone end pins. Wooden pins will sometimes crack at the button portion when removing them later.

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    Default Re: Strap peg keeps popping out

    Wrap the endpin with some painters tape until you get a snug fit.
    Non-marring, non-permanent. You probably already have some on hand.

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    Default Re: Strap peg keeps popping out

    Or just buy a new ebony end pin , some sandpaper and fit it yourself. But the painters tape fix is the least labor intensive. One wrap or less generally does it. Snug … R/
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    Default Re: Strap peg keeps popping out

    I confess to being one of those who, in pure innocent ignorance, once superglued an endpin to make it stay in. It did work, but I publicly apologize to whoever now has that mandolin.

    One trick I have since learned is to put a coat or two of clear nail polish on the tapered part of the endpin and let it dry thoroughly before reinserting it into the mandolin.

    ps: I am very nervous if my mandolin strap is attached to the endpin without a secondary loop of string or leather or something under the tailpiece for when that endpin pops out while playing.
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  10. #7

    Default Re: Strap peg keeps popping out

    If this is recent, or started getting worse, check your humidity.


    The best solution for this is to add a thin coat of super glue and let it dry, then test the fit. Repeat if needed.
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    Default Re: Strap peg keeps popping out

    Sigh. I have posted about this a bunch of times, but here we go again.

    1. It’s not a “strap peg”. It’s an end pin. It was never designed to use with a strap.
    2. Why is it there, then? Because Orville, and later Lloyd, were trying to incorporate violin design elements into their mandolins. Things we take for granted like carved tops and backs, F holes, scrolls, and so forth. The end pin in a mandolin is just like the equivalent part of a violin.
    3. In a violin, the function of the end pin is to anchor the tailpiece, holding it with a length of gut or nylon. Maybe the end pin was originally meant to go the same thing on a mandolin. But with sharp metal there instead of gut or nylon, the pin was probably prone to shear. Thus, we have the 3 screws. But the end pin remained, probably for looks.
    4. On a violin, the end pin needs to be removable for proper placement of the sound post and provides best view of the instrument interior. On a mandolin, it is also handy for interior inspections and certain repairs.
    5. It never ceases to amaze me how people are amazed that the pin slips out when they try to use it as a strap button. Why in the world would they have designed such an unreliable system if it was meant to be used in such a way? And why would they have not designed a place to attach the other end of the strap? To me, this is proof positive it was never meant to be used with a strap. Every other design element of Gibson mandolins from that formative era seems well thought out. Why not this element?
    6. In Lloyd Loar’s day, mandolin was a mostly classical instrument. Mandolin orchestras were the thing. Most players played sitting down, without a strap. There was no bluegrass yet, and very few country/folk musicians were using mandolins because they were just too darned expensive. I find that, for me, playing seated without a strap is what feels best and most natural, which makes sense since that’s what the designers of our instrument had in mind.
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    Default Re: Strap peg keeps popping out

    Quote Originally Posted by multidon View Post
    5. It never ceases to amaze me how people are amazed that the pin slips out when they try to use it as a strap button. Why in the world would they have designed such an unreliable system if it was meant to be used in such a way? And why would they have not designed a place to attach the other end of the strap? To me, this is proof positive it was never meant to be used with a strap. Every other design element of Gibson mandolins from that formative era seems well thought out. Why not this element?
    I wouldn't assume it was never meant for a strap. Both Martin and Gibson use tapered end pins on guitars where it pretty clearly was meant to hold a strap. Properly fitted (tapered pin and matching tapered hole) these rarely come out accidentally. It's almost always poorly fitted ones that give trouble. With proper fitting and the additional tiny drop of glue that I mentioned, I have never had one come out unintentionally. I have no trouble getting them out when I want to though.

    As a side note, Collings glues their guitar end pins firmly in place. I do not believe their mandolin end pins are glued, but I have only owned one Collings mandolin.

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    mandolin slinger Steve Ostrander's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strap peg keeps popping out

    6. In Lloyd Loar’s day, mandolin was a mostly classical instrument. Mandolin orchestras were the thing. Most players played sitting down, without a strap. There was no bluegrass yet, and very few country/folk musicians were using mandolins because they were just too darned expensive. I find that, for me, playing seated without a strap is what feels best and most natural, which makes sense since that’s what the designers of our instrument had in mind.
    It's not the 1920s anymore, and many people play other styles of music besides classical. I for one like to play standing up, and I like to "move to the groove." So I use a strap, and I don't feel guilty about it. I do have the strap safety tied to the TP, though.
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    Default Re: Strap peg keeps popping out

    Don's got a persuasive argument as far as mandolins are concerned -- the end pin's a relic of violin construction, not a strap holder -- but as pointed out above, that doesn't explain guitar end pins.

    Anyway, fairly irrelevant today; mandolinists hook their straps around end pins, the straps are designed to be used that way, the horse is outta the barn and well down the road.

    When my end pins -- guitar or mandolin -- keep slipping out, I put a very light coat of Duco cement on the end pin, then leave it out to dry overnight. It slightly increases the pin's diameter, without acting as an adhesive to glue the pin to the instrument.

    I see others use clear nail polish. You need a non-adhesive coating over the pin, to make it just a bit thicker, without making its installation permanent.
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    Default Re: Strap peg keeps popping out

    If Eastman did rush the peg fit, so its very loose, you can get oversize pins

    and have a skilled tech ream the taper slower and more carefully, than the factory did..
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    Default Re: Strap peg keeps popping out

    Eastman end pins are generally reasonably well fitted with a 1:30 taper, very common, and used for modern violin pegs. The quick fixes are nicely outlined above. I will not use shims myself. Have coated pins, but I prefer not to. I have often been able to get a very slightly loose pin to tighten up nicely by simply dipping the pin in water and tapping it in. In a new instrument, or one where stop-gap fixes seem inappropriate (for example, when I'm charging), I simply fit a new pin. Touch up the hole with a reamer. Spin down a new pin until it's perhaps 0.5 to 1 mm proud, then tap in.
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    Default Re: Strap peg keeps popping out

    The end pin works marvelously well as a splitting wedge. A quick knock against something hard and relatively immobile will crack the end block of a mandolin. It also provides manufacturers with the opportunity to move more product when a strap slips off and permits sudden engagement with the gravity field, and again that sudden stop.

    I gave a fine guitar to a friend of mine, who had this happen, and the resulting pile of irreparable splintered chunks was a bit disappointing.

    One poster here described a method of using a doubled rawhide bootlace on the end of his mando strap, which lace was pkoed thru the hole and knotted thru the soundhole. This knot created a non-slipping retainer for the strap, which was removable by reversing the process by untying the knot for removal.

    Personally, I toss the endpins from my instruments into the case, where they remain unused.

    BTW, it's impossible to manipulate a violin soundpost thru the endpin hole. That would necessitate unstringing the instrument and removing the tailpiece. When that is done, the soundpost will flop as it's held against the back and belly by the pressure exerted on the instrument by the stringing. Adjusting the position of the post to achieve the sought-after tonal improvement would be impossible. Typically a bent piece of stiff wire with one end sharpened to stick into the softwood post is used to maneuver the post on a fully strung and tuned fiddle.

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    Default Re: Strap peg keeps popping out

    Seriously, just use a wrap or two of painters tape around the taper of the endpin.
    I have had countless mandolins and guitars and many of them have had ill fitting endpins. Once snugged up with painters tape, they have never accidentally come out. I'm sure this thread will go on for pages and pages, as is the nature of the internet, but you can be long done with this problem with 10 seconds and an inch of tape.

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    Default Re: Strap peg keeps popping out

    For Bob A, and anyone else who misinterpreted what I said about the end pin hole and violin soundposts:

    Of course I know you don’t adjust a soundpost through the end pin hole. You do that though the treble F hole. What I meant was, you need to look at it through the end pin hole to make sure it’s in there straight. It can look like it’s strsight though the F hole, but that’s an optical illusion. It can still be tilted from the end pin hole perspective. I would usually place it through the F hole under string tension, then remove strings and tailpiece, then look at it through the end pin hole while I adjusted it in that third axis. It is easy to feel how tight it is. Make it just snug, so it doesn’t move, but not too tight. Then re-assemble and slowly bring back up to pitch. Check sound and fine adjust at that point. I am a retired school orchestra director and I have successfully installed many sound posts with that procedure. No problems.

    I saw a violin end pin once that was in two parts. You could pop out an inside part to be able to look in there without taking out the entire pin! Good idea, if you ask me. I don’t know if you can still get those.

    I am aware, also, that it’s not the 1920’s anymore. But if we are going to use it as a strap button, why not update the design so that it functions better? My Weber’s, for example, eschew the tapered pin and instead use a screw with a knurled knob tightened into a rubber compression nut that grips the walls of the hole quite strongly. Ironically, I don’t use a strap, but pay instruments that were designed for just that.
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    Default Re: Strap peg keeps popping out

    My friends on the cafe helped me solve this same problem. I had an array of suggestions, but I chose to follow this advice: Remove the end pin. Place a small rounded dot of wood glue on the side of the pin. Slide it in place with a bit of firmness. Let it dry over night. It will never fall out again. If you would want to remove it, just give it a very firm twist and it will come free for removal. Then, you can add a pickup or a different pin, as you desire. Theoretically, there would never be a necessity.
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    Default Re: Strap peg keeps popping out

    Just glue it in place as stated above and be done with it. Why risk having the strap come off because of a loose pin. If you drop your mandolin there would be damage weather it had a pin or not.

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    Default Re: Strap peg keeps popping out

    I still get nervous about the end pins coming out. My starter mandolin, a The Loar LM 500vs went crashing to the tile floor and broke into several pieces after owning it for 24 hours! Even with the screw in type on my Webers, I still tie a piece of small chord under the tailpiece and through one of the strap holes. A little overly cautious I must admit, but losing my Yellowstone to the same fate would hurt a tad more than losing my The Loar that way. By the way, Saga replaced it at no charge saying the end pin was too loosely fit from the factory. I got lucky!
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    Default Re: Strap peg keeps popping out

    You can use clear nail varnish to act as a very weak glue. It'll stay in until you twist the end pin to break the glue,which you can do pretty easily. I did that with the end pin on my Lebeda mandolin & it's been fine for close to 9 years,
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    Default Re: Strap peg keeps popping out

    One way to avoid accidentally droping instrument when end pin comes out is to never never let go completely of instrument while standing, something my Dad drilled into me from the beginning. I know Johnny Cash threw his around to his back and Lester Flatt trusted his strap while HD was talking but I will not do that I don't have their money.

  32. #22

    Default Re: Strap peg keeps popping out

    Quote Originally Posted by multidon View Post
    But if we are going to use it as a strap button, why not update the design so that it functions better? ...
    Some do; some don't. Perhaps why there is often not a great deal of concern about it is because it's such a simple fix.

    Even basses and cellos - where end pins are functionally critical - vary widely among makers in these respects.

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    Default Re: Strap peg keeps popping out

    I don't see why if a peg can keep a tailpiece on a fiddle with 4 tuned strings pulling against it, we can't ask a peg to hold about half the weight of a mandolin. Both pulls are approximatly right angle pulls.

  34. #24

    Default Re: Strap peg keeps popping out

    Guitar end pins are not usually made from wood, so no shrinkage when they dry out.
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  35. #25
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strap peg keeps popping out

    From Mandoplumb - ".....never never let go completely of instrument while standing,..." Absolutely correct Sir !. I always hold the neck of my mandolin,simply to stop it swinging downwards. The other benefit of course,is that IF the endpin did pop out,i'd have the mandolin 'in hand',
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