Mando Lesson Structure

[mandokismet]

Hi,

I'm taking biweekly 30 minute lessons from a locally talented mandolin teacher (to my ear and the gigs he does). I've been playing about a year and started lessons about 9 months ago. I like to play traditional and irish music with my wife and friends and feel semi-competent with melody using tab on many songs, though if they get too fast I switch to harmony.

I'd like to work my way toward having a good intermediate foundation to attend a regional music camp next summer and feel like the time and money was worth it. The more I learn the more I'm realizing I need to learn.

I've never taken music lessons before and I'd be interested in knowing what others have experienced in terms of lesson structure for a 30 minute lesson.

1. Do you have a structured, repeatable format (agenda) of some kind or is it fluid?
2. How do you set targets or goals? Based on a skill, a song, a point in the book?
3. Do you play at the same time or do you play alone and the teacher watches?
4. Are you using a book or does the teacher bring random materials or something else?
5. Do you work through songs, music theory, techniques, or all of the above? Every lesson?

When we're playing songs together I feel like he has some tips here and there, but I mostly just need to keep practicing over and over with the metronome. It's like we're practicing songs rather than skills. However, when we play together at the same time (or with another mandolin friend 1:1), I fall apart the first few times - almost like I didn't practice (kind of frustrating) - so there is probably some value in getting used to playing in a small group where my mistakes aren't drown out and/or I can't start over infinitum on my own.

Today we veered away from just playing songs and talked a bit about improv, which I found helpful since it supplemented beyond the book and taught me some repeatable skills.

I'm hoping to steer the lessons into something that I feel is better value for my time and money.

[David Lewis]

Talk to him about it. When I teach, I stress two things - 1) you’re meant to enjoy it. 2) we learn what you want to learn. Now no 2 is a little ingenuous - I use the songs they want to teach the techniques they use. Eventually you get into scales, and chords and etc. also, you’re allowed to do your own learning as in use the resources here, or buy books to enhance what you’re being taught.

We all learn differently. Maybe suggest some songs you want to learn? And don’t worry about falling apart. That’s called part of the process.

Mad the last thing, you’re not being graded and your teacher isn’t judging your mistakes, except insofar as he’s learning what you need.

[Mando Mort]

I teach guitar lessons and, like David above, I focus on what the student wants to learn and accomplish with the emphasis on enjoyment. There are a lot of different approaches that can be used to do carry that out and a combination of approaches (such as learning songs, working on timing and techniques, improvisation, etc.) can work well. It usually unfolds naturally as the student shows their level of commitment and reveals the music they wish to learn.

[Ranald]

As an adult learner, I've learned to negotiate music lessons, decide what I want and explain this to the teacher, then work out a system. At the same time, the teacher may know more about what I need than I do, so I don't want to be inflexible. Regarding your point about the metronome: unless your teacher has an extremely rigid approach to use with every student, I suspect there's a reason that you're playing with the metronome every week. Your timing is poor. I had one fiddle teacher, who had me sit clapping my hands with the metronome until I couldn't hear it, which meant that I was on the beat. This approach helped my timing considerably. Another fiddle teacher instructed me on how to tap my feet Cape-Breton style, which taught me about subtleties of emphasizing the beat, another helpful technique. Furthermore, I've found playing with the teacher valuable. For instance, if I was slowing down during the hard parts or stumbling over a mistake, it helped me learn to recover quickly and carry on with the tune rather than stopping to correct my mistake.

You have the right to ask your teacher why you have to do whatever it is you don't like in your lessons. I found that I could practice scales and arpeggios regularly after a fiddle-camp instructor explained how this would help me (interestingly, one with no formal music education, and who couldn't read music). Previously, I couldn't discipline myself to do these seemingly meaningless exercises. Also, tell your teacher about your progress or lack thereof at group sessions, and perhaps he or she will have suggestions. Finally, you can drop a teacher you aren't happy with, if you're in a community where others can be found. I've done so. I got rid of my first mandolin teacher, as I can't abide fuss-budgets and scolds (a good friend loves him as a teacher, which just goes to show...). I've sometimes taken a season of lessons then not returned for months, so I can apply what I've learned till it comes "naturally." When I felt that I was having difficulty progressing, I'd take lessons again, perhaps with a different teacher. Even without a teacher, you can find considerable, books, DVD's, and online resources, including lessons. Once you have a good foundation in playing, these become easier to use.
All the best with your learning and playing.

[Mark Wilson]

Talk to him about it.

+1
I do the best with lessons when they are limited in scope. A 30 minute lesson can be pretty daunting if 12 things are discussed. My advice is to use the first lesson session to let the instructor evaluate where you are and then decide a lesson direction or pick out an area you need to improve

[mandokismet]

I don't dislike the lessons, it just feels more like tips than skills as I mentioned.

I think in the end I'd like to focus on things I can't do myself.

Playing single note melody traditional songs (Ashoken, Kitchen Girl, Red Haired Boy, Off to California, etc) is pretty straightforward IMO - getting faster is on me to practice appropriately. Same with reading music and memorization.

Things I think I could use his value-added help on are music theory, improv, moving up the neck, coordinating with another person, adding color and complexity to a basic song, etc. Maybe I'll take that list to him and see where it goes...

[Br1ck]

There are so many people calling themselves teachers that just say what song do you want to learn, and teach the song. You will certainly learn new techniques that way, but I don't feel that is entirely correct.

I watched my daughters both go through a very similar regimen learning cello and viola. The method developed over a couple of centuries encorporates scales and scale exercises in all keys, etudes to develope technique, then pieces that use the technique. Building a base of knowledge block by block is what I'd look for in a teacher.

I've tried to do that for myself by playing minor and major key scales every day, tremolo and cross picking practice, then songs.

Double stop harmony scales are also part of the drill.

[Mark Wilson]

I don't dislike the lessons, it just feels more like tips than skills as I mentioned.

Every instructor is different but IMO, a trained eye observing you play, can point out technique issues that a self taught person may take years to discover. Hopefully you'll find the sessions rewarding.

[Mark Gunter]

I don't dislike the lessons, it just feels more like tips than skills as I mentioned.

I think it would be hard for any of us to understand just what your lessons now are like, but from what you're saying, they seem to probably be on the right track.

Your teacher can not in any wise give you skills, what he or she can do is give you tips and show you some skills to work on. The idea that you are playing (or practicing) songs with the teacher is a good thing. It may be that the idea is to show you some licks, demonstrate some skills, and get you playing in order to "test" you or "acclimate" you to playing in time and practicing what skills you are gaining.

Understand that your personal skill development can not happen in a class room in a 30 minute session. You will need to develop the skills at home alone using the tools and tips the teacher can give you, and others you may find.

One thing that can help tremendously is to ask your teacher if you may video record parts of the lesson. Not the whole thing, but for example, if your teacher is demonstrating a new lick or melody, or chord, or rhythm, something specific, ask him or her if you can record their demonstration. Next day, view that recording, perhaps using a slow-downer program (I use Transcribe!) and take all the time you need at home to learn and practice what the teacher is demonstrating.

Hopefully some of this may help you. Only you can know if my comment or others above are on the mark, since we're not in the class with you. But it doesn't sound to me like your teacher is necessarily lacking here. Then again, different strokes for different spokes, y'know.

[Mark Gunter]

I started lessons Tuesday morning, will be going once a week for an hour a shot. I asked the guy to help me learn some bluegrass mandolin. I want to learn some cool licks, and I want to learn songs that will be relevant to the bluegrass jams locally; he and I both know the jams.

He started by introducing a specific tune, and although I consider myself a decent rhythm player, I just couldn't get the groove to that song. He allowed me to record him demonstrating the basic melody. I also recorded him demonstrating a generic lick.

Once I got home, I watched and learned the melody, then began practicing it. I also checked the sheet music, and finally realized that a 2/4 measure thrown into this crooked tune, coupled with the pick-up notes that always kick off the melody, were messing my timing up, and I finally got a handle on it. Being able to watch and play along with my actual instructor on video is proving invaluable to me. I respect his skill, his talents and his gigging, so I want to understand his style as well as understanding the music itself.

Hopefully all food for thought, based on what you wrote in OP.

[SincereCorgi]

Every instructor is different but IMO, a trained eye observing you play, can point out technique issues that a self taught person may take years to discover. Hopefully you'll find the sessions rewarding.

This gets at something at something I think is important with lessons (I teach some). When a student plays something, a teacher can probably see about twenty things to work on- posture, pick grip, pick angle, loudness, tempo, leaving fingers down, playing through both strings, making weird faces, etc, etc... and you have to pick ONE.

Or, maybe two or three, spread over the whole lesson. This is where personality and being up-front about goals is important. Lessons aren't magic- if you have a set of things you want to learn, start reading and watching videos and practicing on your own time and then bring questions to your teacher. It will go much, much faster than if you wait for someone to spoon-feed you theory. Things like theory and music history are really interesting and vital but really suck up lesson time.

[mandokismet]

I realized I forgot to say thanks for everyone's input...always helpful.