New Mandolin Player... Have a Loar 520, is a Kentucky 800 Better?

[Br1ck]

I did not play a 1500, but a 1000. It was nice, but I came away with the feeling that I would regret not buying the Northfield F5S. Now a grand is a lot of money, but I heard the difference. But if you can find a used Kentucky that works for you, that wouldn't be bad. You could recoup your money on the next upgrade.

A lot of them will have flat boards though, so no mandolin is worth buying if it doesn't work for you. Again, that Gallatin....

[cap217]

No mandolin shops here in Cleveland... That would be helpful. Riot Music has Eastmans and maybe Collings. I played a few Eastmans around $1k and wasnt impressed. Now my price range is higher so maybe I should go back.

FYI, I have dropped the idea of the 800 completely. Now the question is:

1 - Keep the Loar and just play?
2 - Get a used Kentucky KM 1500? Would be shipped to me so I cant play it.
3 - Search for a used Northfield Fs5 and spend the extra money over the KM1500
4 - Sit and wait for a Gibson F9.

My current thought process is that I get the Kentucky 1500 and play it until something comes along that impresses me then sell the 1500 for the same price I bought it for used, assuming I get a deal.


And since I am new here and a month into playing I thought I would post a clip of me practicing today. Judge all you want, ha... But this gives you an idea of where I am at as a player and what my current mandolin sounds like. I honestly think it sounds good.

Elixir 10-34 strings and a TF140 pick. I made another video with a Blue Chip CT 55 that shows a huge difference in sound.

TF 140
https://www.instagram.com/p/BoRyLHgD...on_share_sheet


CT55
https://www.instagram.com/p/BoRxQC6n...on_share_sheet

[Folkmusician.com]

Great progress on the playing for that amount of time!

I don't see any problem with buying if you will be able to recoup the majority of the price on resale. You get to enjoy the instrument a lose little to nothing. Sounds like a plan to me!

[B381]

I am a month into the mandolin. I have been playing guitar for 20 years though

I was about to sell all mine after reading you had been playing a month and listening to that until I went back and read this...whew... thought I was a lost cause.

[itstooloudMike]

More food for thought, again from a guitar player. During my mando journey, I owned an Eastman 815 for about a year. This is one of the higher level Eastman F-styles. I got a good deal on it (used), and it looked nice, but I quickly determined it wasn't what I really wanted. I went to a music shop that stocks both Weber and Gibson, to play a few higher grade mandolins. I found out that the Weber neck was vastly easier for me to play accurately, and didn't cause my hand to cramp after playing awhile. After playing a couple of nice Webers, I was handed a Gibson F-9. I quickly determined two things. The Gibson made the sound that my ears wanted to hear. But the Gibson neck wasn't as easy to play for me. It was deep-V shaped with a flat fingerboard and tiny frets. A combination that causes me hand fatigue, and is difficult for me to play fluidly and accurately. I like the rounded neck profile of the Weber, a radius fretboard, and wider frets. As a guitar player, this neck feels comfortable, and allows me to play with greater ease. So, I bought the Weber, and loved it for a couple more years. But the Gibson sound haunted me. Ultimately, I found my current mandolin, a Summit F-style. It was what I had wished for. It has a neck like a Weber, but sounds like a Gibson. It was also less pricey than a Gibson, even though it is hand-made in the US (by an ex-Gibson luthier). So, long story short, there are many facets to "upgrading" in mandolins. You need to understand the sound you are seeking, and also what attributes make the instrument play well for you. This is why it's good to be able to play before you pay. If that can't happen, use this forum to do lots of research.

[Eric F.]

What's your budget? There is a used Northfield languishing in the classifieds for $2,200.

Also, did you explicitly say you must have an F style? You can get a very sweet used A in the $1,400 to $2,200 range.

Anyhow, it's always tempting to upgrade, and it looks like a wonderland of musical instrument bliss out there, but there's nothing wrong with playing the snot out of what you've got and making a decision after you've had a chance to play a number of other mandolins. There's also nothing wrong with buying a better instrument now if you can afford it. I would just caution against the slight (possible) upgrade you seem to have already talked yourself out of. Make sure you are really getting something significantly better.

Edit: OK, I missed the "I want an F" post. Carry on!

[cap217]

You guys are all correct. I went to riot today and tried some Eastman’s and a colling. The 815 was the best of the day. I also took mine to compare and mine sounds less articulate and less full and muddy in the mids and lows. The highs were tinny too. The collings was dry but not anything special to my ears. Especially for $4200 ish. The Eastman was nice but I’m reading that the 1500 is even nicer. Sucks that I can’t play all these. I’d even splurge for an f9 if I found one and liked it at this point. A nicer mandolin will encourage me to play more often. And on the g strings mine and cheaper ones don’t sound in tune v a nice one. At least to my ears. It’s like the lows can’t come through and they fight with each other.

I could be making all this up in my head but I hear differences. Can’t compare playability until things are setup the same. But 11-40 strings on nicer mandolins w bigger frets and a radius seem as easy to play as my 10-34 that I had to switch to. So at least I’m learning some stuff here.

[pheffernan]

The Brick Scale for Beginners

Here's the deal. Let's say your 520 is a 3,

$600 for a 3

a 1000 to 1500 series would be a 6. Would cost a chunk of change.

$1850 for a 6

The next step might be something like a Northfield which would be a 7 and cost you another grand, but the 6 to 7 is sweet.

$3K for a 7

then someone puts a Gibson F9 or a Collings MF in your hands and you go from 7 to 7.5 and costs you another $1500, but that half a point is delicious .

$4500 for a 7.5

To get to 8 costs you another $3K cause you take a bunch of inlay and pretty wood in the package.

$7500 for an 8

Double that to get to 9

$15K for a 9

and double that to get to 9.5.

$30K for a 9.5

No one has ever found a ten. A Loar is 9.8.

6 figures for 9.8

[Br1ck]

Thanks for that.

To the OP, my experience ran parallel to yours. I had some first rate acoustic guitars. Can never go back. I was a flat picker, so my right hand can learn things pretty quickly. I bought an Eastman MD 505, a very decent mandolin to learn on. Knew I liked playing mandolin, started going into stores and playing better mandolins. Immediately realized a richness in the G string that wasn't there in my Eastman. Wanted that. Saw a Silverangel at an attractive price and bought it. Still haunted by the F9 I played. But the move to the SA was the one that took the pressure off the MAS peddle.

So get you a rich G string, then save for the next one. Trust me, the desire won't be as pressing and you can take your time while playing a nice mandolin. You might realize you don't need more. I could live a long time with a Gallatin or an F5 S.

[fatt-dad]

I'd say a Collings MT (or better), the Wegan TF140 pick, EXP-74cm for strings and a bit of practice.

An arch-top, f-hole mandolin is what most folks play. Solid wood and hand carved are essential in, "Upgrade" mandolins.

It's all in the right hand though and they're not for sale.

f-d

[Eric Hanson]

I agree with Fatt-Dad.
Collings makes a wonderful instrument. I would suggest possibly one that has some age on it. It will likely produce a sweeter more round tone. I absolutely LOVE mine. It has some age. It is an “A”, but I too was one who just HAD to have an F. The neck shape and playability is quite nice. I find myself craving to play it daily. Such a sweet tone to enjoy at the end of most days.
I reasoned it through and figured, If Tim O’Brien can play an A that has such a strong history in many genre of music, I can do the same.
Another is Don Jullian. Many years playing an A speaks volumes.
I may change my mind in the future, but I am quite happy for now.

[RustyMadd]

I'm 5-6 years in on my instru-mental schizophrenic journey. I started with a personally chosen sample of a Loar 520, had it setup correctly by an expert, then began sanding off the plastic coating, eventually liberating the wood. it has opened up nicely and will continue to age gracefully now. Regardless, as an accomplished guitar picker I found mandolin refreshing and challenging. it has taken these many years to really begin to know what genre I'm truly interested in and to begin to study and love the tunes.

With all that said, I would recommend sticking with picking for now. These guys on here will most often fall prey to MAS and will drag you down with them....just joking of course. But seriously stick to picking for a couple years while some more information can percolate into your world view.

FWIW Though, the Kentucky 800 would be a very nice upgrade to a so-so stock Loar 520. I would've jumped a couple years ago if I could've afforded it. But looking back now, I'm glad I modified my 520, it's pretty loud and barky in a good way.

Blessings

[Br1ck]

What all this boils down to is how much money you have after your obligations to yourself and others are covered, and how much of that you want to devote to mandolin. No one needs a new better mandolin. Wants is an entirely subjective battle between desire vs. finances.

But get to where you want to go before you retire, because then every spending decission has you thinking, if I buy this, I'm betting on myself to die sooner than later. LOL

[cap217]

Just updating this as the op. I was close to a deal on a Kentucky 1500 but it fell apart and I wasn’t sold on the vintage frets without playing. So I said I would look for an Eastman 815 or 915 or a Kentucky 1050. Radius board and modern frets. My current loar is modern frets but flat board. Just talking knowledge from guitars and what I like and have played in the few mandolins around here.

So the 1050 is on the way and I’m happy about it. Of course the 1500 is the top of the line but spec wise the 1050 fit. And eastmas seem to be hit or miss from what I’ve read. Thanks for all the input and I hope the 1050 works for me for a while.

[pops1]

First off I would change the strings on your 520. You will get much better sound from some heavier strings than the 10-34 strings you are using. The mandolin can handle the 11-40 that most use. It is the cheapest way to change sound other than picks.

[Phil Goodson]

Just updating this...
So the 1050 is on the way and I’m happy about it. Of course the 1500 is the top of the line but spec wise the 1050 fit. ....and I hope the 1050 works for me for a while.

Congrats!! I'm betting that you like the 1050. It certainly has all the specs that I would choose in a Kentucky. Best wishes!

Do experiment with different types of strings over the next year or so.

[RustyMadd]

Bottom line, no it isn't provided you got a beast of a 520 like I did. Of course I modified mine and it's only gotten better. Now if you got a crap-specimen of a 520 or even an average, then yes, and sure a bit better respectively. While I think I remember you already bought something else, my comments are for those in similar situations and still contemplating what to do next. Blessings

[Br1ck]

Congrats. You bought a significant upgrade.

[cap217]

Well the 1050 is a significant upgrade in tone and projection but it just doesn’t feel right yet. I am fighting it. Taking to another guy for a setup this week. But I made a clip. This was literally the song that made introduced me to mandolin. I didn’t know it existed before this and 15-18 years later I decided to learn. No point in showing the whole song. Same riff over and over.

https://instagram.com/p/BpcCQxJjVzG/

[Br1ck]

You need to give it some time. You may get used to it in time, but maybe you won't. One thing is for certain, you will never go back once you get a taste for good tone. I hope you bond with your Kentucky. It sounds pretty darn good to me.

[LongBlackVeil]

I just happen to be the worlds largest seller of the LM-520... The KM-800 is an upgrade, but I agree with everyone else here. It is not enough to justify buying another mandolin that you will still want to upgrade. Hold off and make a larger jump.

If the guy who sells mandolins is recommending you to hold off buying a mandolin, you know thats the right way to go

I agree with everyone else. I started with a loar a style (bought from Robert actually), my next upgrade was a weber yellowstone. Take it easy, i understand the desire to get an upgraded instrument. But those Loars are pretty dang good and your not going to find anything significantly better unless you spend significantly more and go American (or euro if you wanna be fancy) made.

What you could do is get an a style like a flatiron or a gibson a9 for around 1000. Those i do think are a pretty significant upgrade, but no strap hanger.

There are also deals that pop up if you keep an eye out. I got the flatiron in my profile pic for 1500. Hard to imagine a better deal than that in an f style. It had significant play wear though

[RobP]

I'm sure the upgrade you bought is fantastic. Your playing samples sounded good. If you have only been playing for a month though, even after several years of guitar, it might take you a while to acclimate to the smaller fretboard. I would consider keeping and playing a "good enough" instrument for a while and get used to playing mandolin before spending a ton of time looking for one that feels the best right now. "Fighting" with the 1050 may be partly due to technique.

[sbhikes]

You've been playing a month and you think you need a better mandolin? I played a $100 mandolin for 10 years before I decided I wanted a better mandolin, and only then because everybody around me said I should have one. It's not really all that much better, really. It still makes all the same mistakes. If I could find an instrument that didn't make mistakes, that would be worth it.

[Dave Fultz]

I’m seriously thinking about selling off a few unplayed guitars (I had some darned serious GAS for a few years) , my Gibson Songwriter and perhaps a D35 and some lesser models and pop for a $2-4K mandolin.

But I’ve not yet played a fine mandolin yet. Columbus is just not a mandolin town. Best I’ve played was a Collings at Sam Ash, it was nice but dang it’s ugly. And not cool ugly but Chinese misinterpretation ugly. This January my pal and I are taking a road trip to Memphis, MS delta, and then Nashville There ought to be plenty of mando’s to see/play in music city.

[mandolin tony]

that's a big jump price wise from an 805 to a 1050. hold off & enjoy your Loar. maybe down the road you will get one of those Gibson's with that nice block inlay.