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Thread: creating a tailpiece.

  1. #1

    Default creating a tailpiece.

    Hello, I'm new to mandolins, but I've been a blacksmith for quite some time now. I recently got a used Eastman MD315 mandolin, and it has a stamped tailpiece. I know that a cast tailpiece is generally always better than a stamp tailpiece. What about a forged tailpiece? Obviously the more intricate parts would need to be removed with a file and such, but would it be bad to forge the general shape? Would the stressed in the metal from the forging be bad or cause a different tone? Also should I use copper or steel or brass or something else?
    Just me and my Eastman MD315!
    And we're hungry to learn

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  3. #2

    Default Re: creating a tailpiece.

    Go for it. I've made tailpieces out of brass, steel, carbon fiber, and various woods. Go for it, you won't notice a change in tone unless there was something wrong (broken) about your previous tailpiece.
    Forge away... just don't copy an existing design, which would be... forgery.. :-\

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  5. #3

    Default Re: creating a tailpiece.

    haha okay! Then I shall.
    Just me and my Eastman MD315!
    And we're hungry to learn

  6. #4
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: creating a tailpiece.

    Forging would probably be a good way to make a tailpiece: hot metal bends with less fatigue and work-hardening than cold metal, so tailpiece failure may be less than with stamped tailpieces.
    Weight is a concern, at least for some of us, so keeping bulk down without sacrificing strength is worthwhile, though it doesn't make things easier.
    Brass and bronze are probably better material choices than steel because of corrosion and finishing, though plating can minimize corrosion, but steel must be well prepared and copper flashed for good quality plating.

    In my experience, developing an attractive, functional tailpiece can be a difficult and time consuming project. Good luck and have fun!

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  8. #5
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    Default Re: creating a tailpiece.

    I have a very nice tailpiece on a nice mandolin, I only use the bottom half as the weight of the top makes the mandolin not sound as good. I would try to keep it on the lighter side.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  9. #6
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: creating a tailpiece.

    know that a cast tailpiece is generally always better than a stamp tailpiece.
    A good tailpiece is a good tailpiece. A bad tailpiece is a bad tailpiece. I really don't accept that assumption. Welcome to the Cafe.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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  11. #7

    Default Re: creating a tailpiece.

    There are some $150,000 mandolins out there with stamped tailpieces.
    Silverangel A
    Arches F style kit
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  13. #8
    Registered User tonydxn's Avatar
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    Default Re: creating a tailpiece.

    A one-of-a-kind tailpiece will always attract attention from other players. Most tailpieces are steel or brass. I wouldn't recommend steel. If you have a skill that can make your instrument different from other people's, I'd say get on and use it.
    Mandolins: Bandolim by Antonio Pereira Cabral
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  14. #9
    Registered User Steve Sorensen's Avatar
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    Default Re: creating a tailpiece.

    Or 3D printed -

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    Steve
    Steve Sorensen
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  16. #10
    Registered User Walt's Avatar
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    Default Re: creating a tailpiece.

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenS View Post
    Or 3D printed -

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    Steve
    Steve, that's cool. What method was used? The steel powder? Or was it the 3-D wax casting method? I'd be interested to hear how the steel powder fares, if that's what you used.

  17. #11

    Default Re: creating a tailpiece.

    Ben Pearce also makes a nice direct metal laser sintered (3d printed) tailpiece...

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  19. #12
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: creating a tailpiece.

    I've been trying to get mine 3D printed for years but...

    Anyone remember an old Steve Martin comedy routine where he said "You can be a millionaire! Yes, you can be a millionaire! It's easy; first, get a million dollars. Now..."

    All the places that do 3D printing say "it's easy, just send up your digital drawing..."
    So, I've been trying to get a digital drawing of my tailpiece for years.

  20. #13
    Registered User Walt's Avatar
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    Default Re: creating a tailpiece.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunburst View Post
    All the places that do 3D printing say "it's easy, just send up your digital drawing..."
    So, I've been trying to get a digital drawing of my tailpiece for years.
    I have to create detailed GIS maps for my line of work. I spent a lot of time and effort trying to figure it all out myself. Then I realized I could get local art/graphic design students to do it for basically beer money. I'd post an offer on a school bulletin board.

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  22. #14
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: creating a tailpiece.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I have to create detailed GIS maps for my line of work. I spent a lot of time and effort trying to figure it all out myself. Then I realized I could get local art/graphic design students to do it for basically beer money. I'd post an offer on a school bulletin board.
    Hasn't worked so far...

  23. #15

    Default Re: creating a tailpiece.

    A lot of happy Gibson owners out there [ including me ] would disagree with the original posters silly statement that cast tailpieces are ' always ' better than stamped ones.

    Dave H
    Eastman 615 mandola
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  25. #16
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: creating a tailpiece.

    Dave - It may be that the OP's only experience with 'Tin' tailpieces has been like my own with the 'Tin monstrosity' that came with my Michael Kelly mandolin. Of course cast t/piece aren't 'always' better,but in the case on my own - the 'Allen' cast t/piece certainly was.

    With regard to the OP's question - ''In my opinion'',forging your own t/piece is only worth it to have your own designed / manufactured t/piece on your mandolin. It'll be a unique item - other than that,if you want a 'better' t/piece for your mandolin than you have at the moment,there are many excellent ones to be had,both 'stamped' & cast. A very high quality 'stamped' tailpiece,is the 'Pruscha' mandolin tailpiece,made in the Czech.republic by Jaroslav Pruscha. Mr.Pruscha has been making both banjo & mandolin parts that some of the top builders (inc.Gibson) have been using for a long time.

    The Allen 'cast' tailpieces are possibly the best known cast ones. However,the 'James' tailpieces are possibly the very best of all
    currently available ones,
    Ivan
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  27. #17

    Default Re: creating a tailpiece.

    Didn't mean to offend anyone with the cast vs. stamped kind of thing. It's just what I've gathered from my 4 days of having a mandolin. And mine seems fine and is stamped. It actually seems quite good. I just came to an incorrect conclusion because I had typically seen stamped tailpieces on cheaper mandolins, and more cast pieces on more expensive mandolins. Just a mess up! sorry! Mostly I just think it would be fun to have a piece on the mandolin that I made and designed myself haha.
    Just me and my Eastman MD315!
    And we're hungry to learn

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  29. #18
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    Default Re: creating a tailpiece.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunburst View Post
    Hasn't worked so far...
    John,

    See if you can find a (if possible local) mechanical designer (look for someone in the small castings or molded plastics industries) that has access to pretty much any kind of CADD system. They can knock off a 3d design for you very quickly. They will set up a basic design based on your paper sketch with variables that will make it pretty easy to tweak to your final acceptance. A good way to find these guys is to call the local metal or aluminum foundries and ask to talk to their in-house designers or patternmakers (if they don't have those ask for a project manager). They will know where to send you. If I wasn't retired I could pretty much make a model of anything you could dream up.
    Tony

  30. #19
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: creating a tailpiece.

    I doubt very much if you've even come close to ''offending'' anybody !. You asked a perfectly legit. question based on your own observations - that's not wrong !. That's how you gain info.

    As it is,the preference of a stamped / cast / machined (James) t/piece, is purely the preference of the makers - there's really no ''better or best'' - that's folks' own opinions,but some do function better than others & are easier to use. In that respect,i think that the James t/piece takes the prize,
    Ivan
    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
    Lebeda F-5 "Special".
    Stelling Bellflower BANJO
    Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
    Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.

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  32. #20

    Default Re: creating a tailpiece.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunburst View Post
    Hasn't worked so far...
    Try any college with an Engineering Technology or Polytechnic program. When we toured MET programs with my son, all of them were taking on projects to give students "real work" experiences. My son ended up at Purdue. They have a "maker" studio where students have access to CNC mills, lathes, 3D printers, waterjet and all sorts of technology. I can ask him about that process. He is supposed to be designing and printing a scupper valve for a sailboat.

  33. #21

    Default Re: creating a tailpiece.

    I'm a freshman at a primarily engineering university in tennessee and every freshman takes a course on Autocad. If was better at it I could do it for you myself! But I'm sure that some of my classmates could do it for you. If you want me to I could post an ad about it on the buy/sell/trade board up in the food court. I'm sure you can find a broke college student here that would do it for you for a fairly small amount of paypal money, or actual money if you're in the area.
    Just me and my Eastman MD315!
    And we're hungry to learn

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  35. #22
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: creating a tailpiece.

    Looks like it might be time to take my "plight" to PM or email.
    Of course I've tried colleges, I've sent samples to various people in industry, so far...nothing...
    Thanks for the suggestions folks you might be hearing from me. Things are changing, more digital manufacturing all the time, perhaps it's time to try again.

  36. #23

    Default Re: creating a tailpiece.

    PM me if you want! I can't promise that I can help but I sure will try! Thanks everyone for the information.
    Just me and my Eastman MD315!
    And we're hungry to learn

  37. #24
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: creating a tailpiece.

    If I was a guy looking to make a cast tailpiece I would be tempted to build a cast version of the Waverly Cloud tailpiece that was used on generations of mandolins just so there would be a decent replacement that fit the same bolt pattern and had the same look. That's just me.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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  39. #25
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    Default Re: creating a tailpiece.

    I honestly think everyone wants to put their touch on their mandolin within their inherent capabilities. Meaning those who know wood and finish may speed neck their instrument or replace the thick finish on an imported lower end mandolin. Those who can do metal may want to make a new tailpiece. Me, I can change strings and put stickers on my case.

    tinkering is great. That's how you find what makes positive or negative changes in an instrument's performance.

    In my years of looking on the Cafe, tailpieces are a later modification to an instrument after strings and bridges. Tuners get changed out for better performance. There's not tons and tons of data on what a variety of tailpieces do to the sound. Most people swap out for aesthetic or string change ease.

    I'm not trying to discourage you. Not at all. Most folks like the traditional look of the stamped (or Hot Rod Jame's tail piece). I've had stamped, cast (Eastman), cast (lost wax technique on a LaBraid) and one of Sunburst's tailpieces on instruments. I even liked the funky integrated tailpiece on the Weber Sweet Pea travel mandolin.

    I would love to see what a forged tailpiece could look like. I can't imagine forging something that small. I will say as you get there, build some with standard hole spacing... sadly, there seems to be several standards!

    Jamie
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