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Thread: String quality on used instruments in stores?

  1. #1

    Default String quality on used instruments in stores?

    I have played mandolins in stores that are highly rated and sound terrible and some rated terribly which sound good. In particular the worst sounding mandolin I played was a used Kentucky 150.

    I know all the instruments show a great deal of variation in sound, but I wonder if on used instruments whether worn out or cheap strings may be the principal reason many instruments sound so terrible or that new good strings on a medicore instrument may make it sound good. Thanks so much.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: String quality on used instruments in stores?

    Old strings can make an instrument sound poor. Also, a poor setup of the bridge and nut can be a problem.
    If there is something that you're interested in, you can always ask the shop to put new strings on it for you to test. You'll have to pay for the strings whether you buy it or not, usually.
    No way to tell from here why the Kentucky 150 was not good sounding. Kentucky/Saga has made that instrument for many years though and they have changed over time. So it may not have been made like the current KM-150.

    PS- Even among instruments that are generally well regarded, a specific one may not be good sounding. And among instruments that are not usually great, there may be some that do sound and play reasonably well.
    Last edited by colorado_al; Sep-11-2018 at 8:47pm.

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  4. #3

    Default Re: String quality on used instruments in stores?

    Al is correct... There have been several versions of KM-150 made over the decades. Many with nothing in common. Strings can make a difference as can the setup. It does make it very difficult to compare instruments. It may be obvious that one sounds better than another, but the reason is not always clear.
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    Default Re: String quality on used instruments in stores?

    Thanks so much, you guys confirmed what I thought. I would appreciate any additional thoughts on the issue.

  6. #5
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: String quality on used instruments in stores?

    Many of the chains don't bother much with set up or at least barely do so with the non-guitars in the acoustic rooms. I have fiund mandolins with the protective foam under the bridge. They just take them out of the shipping box and hang them on the wall. Sometimes they might tune them and sometimes not. You can get away with that with a ukulele but rarely with a mandolin.

    At a GC I frequent they have a nice Recording King guitar that one of the employees liked and set up with monel strings. It sounded great but he is no longer at that store and the same strings are on it. Now the pickguard is coming off. They wonder why it doesn't sell.
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    Default Re: String quality on used instruments in stores?

    Another thing that is seldom mentioned is the mandolin tuned somewhere close to A440. I know of one store in my area where the owner tunes each instrument by ear. Nothing wrong with that except that he uses nothing for reference, so the mandolin may be right or it may be a fret and a half low or high. Most mandolins sound best in "standard" tuning, or a least that is what we have grown accustomed to.

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    Default Re: String quality on used instruments in stores?

    It seems like a no-brainer that stores should put new strings on instruments so they sound better so people want to buy them, but it doesn’t work out that way. Every set of strings you add eats into your margins on that instrument. So putting new $10 strings on a Collings is easier to justify than on a KM 150. I worked at a shop and if an item was on consignment we had to call the owner before putting on new strings and basically all of them said leave the strings on or said add new strings but bump up the price by $15.

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    Default Re: String quality on used instruments in stores?

    It seems like a no-brainer that stores should put new strings on instruments so they sound better so people want to buy them, but it doesn’t work out that way.
    This is exactly right.

    Even with an electric string winder, it is very time consuming to change strings. Especially when you factor in the time needed for them to stretch and hold stable tuning. X 100 instruments and you are looking at $500 in strings and another $500+ in labor. And that is for someone that is very fast and assuming they don't spend time fixing intonation and such. More time if you want the strings to actually stay in tune and the intonation to be on.

    Sell one mandolin per day and you have added $33.33 cost per sale ($1000/30). Sale 10 mandolins per month and you added $100. Assuming strings were changed once per month. It really can't be done on lower priced instruments.
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    Default Re: String quality on used instruments in stores?

    Of the music stores that I've visited, and of those that I have taught at back in the last century, none of them except one well known boutique store on the lower west coast ever changed any strings on hanging instruments.

    I've never seen a warehouse guitar store where any strings are routinely changed unless they are broken. In fact last month a friend and I were shopping at one such store for a guitar for a friend and all of the strings were horrible... We specifically asked to see a new boxed version of a particular guitar so we could hear it with new strings. The sales person provided that very hesitatingly. We ended up buying that new boxed guitar.
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    Default Re: String quality on used instruments in stores?

    Quote Originally Posted by dhergert View Post
    Of the music stores that I've visited, and of those that I have taught at back in the last century, none of them except one well known boutique store on the lower west coast ever changed any strings on hanging instruments.

    I've never seen a warehouse guitar store where any strings are routinely changed unless they are broken. In fact last month a friend and I were shopping at one such store for a guitar for a friend and all of the strings were horrible... We specifically asked to see a new boxed version of a particular guitar so we could hear it with new strings. The sales person provided that very hesitatingly. We ended up buying that new boxed guitar.
    Very true. If it is a new instrument that the store routinely stocks, you do not have to buy the one hanging on the wall. They may have one boxed up in back that hasn't been sitting out getting banged up by everyone else.

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    Default Re: String quality on used instruments in stores?

    I always get sad when I see a classical guitar strung with steel strings hanging up. If it's one I see in person I try to mention it to a clerk and loosen the strings.

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    Default Re: String quality on used instruments in stores?

    One day I dropped into the local Big Box Store featuring Guitars which shall go unnamed. They had maybe 6 mandolins in various stages of disrepair. I could tell there were one or two which would greatly benefit from minor setup. I asked the sales rep and he asked what was involved. And mentioned the mandolins including a Gibson F-5G for $3800 hadn't sold in months. So we took the F5G over to the guitar tech who said he didn't know much about mandolins, changed strings, adjusted action, and "burped" the bridge which was canted ( I thought that the sales rep might have had a childhood accident when I did that) , and adjusted the intonation. Everyone was very impressed with the improvement.

    Moral of the story. The F5G sold later that week. And I am welcome to come in and noodle around on instruments I will never buy whenever I want. But I still tune everything I play to standard tuning just to help out.

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    Default Re: String quality on used instruments in stores?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandoplumb View Post
    Another thing that is seldom mentioned is the mandolin tuned somewhere close to A440. I know of one store in my area where the owner tunes each instrument by ear. Nothing wrong with that except that he uses nothing for reference, so the mandolin may be right or it may be a fret and a half low or high. Most mandolins sound best in "standard" tuning, or a least that is what we have grown accustomed to.
    I represent that remark. Had perfect pitch until the combination of a shotguns and Lyme disease took out my good ear, leaving my bad ear my good ear and my good ear my badder ear.

  19. #14

    Default Re: String quality on used instruments in stores?

    A real good business move is to string guitars at the factory with Elixers like Taylor does. I'll bet decent sounding strings have sold a lot of guitars at the Guitar Centers of the world. Would be good for mandolins too.
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    Default Re: String quality on used instruments in stores?

    Yes, the strings can make a huge difference. Even with old dead strings you can usually get a feel for whether a mandolin's "got it" or not, but not necessarily, and especially if further set-up is required. I played several well regarded used mandolins at Gruhn's and Carter's a couple of years ago with which I was underwhelmed, but their strings were totally dead, to the point of corrosion on some of them. Both stores were very busy and I was there for the education, not to buy, so I didn't ask them to change the strings. I know they would have at Carter's, maybe so at Gruhn's. Lowe Vintage is also very accommodating in this regard, but I also make sure I buy something whenever I'm in there, be it strings, a Blue Chip, a strap...not yet a vintage guitar or mandolin, though...

    I'll always offer to pay for strings if I request a change out...
    Chuck

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