First post.. expensive mistake.

[Eclectic1]

Reposting without the rule breach. SO with the necks this is common ? I played violin as a kid so I thought this would be easier than it is.

First let me thank this group. You have no idea how many people are not members but read and learn for months and months and the experience and knowledge here is just fantastic. I have read almost every post on necks and i am so inexperienced that I need to bounce this around a bit for feedback. I have been playing strings for a really long time, guitar forever (30 yrs ) and ukulele. I have had a 100 dollar mandolin that someone made from a kit for about 8 yrs. I liked it actually ! I am starting to add mandolin to some small groups i play with because there are too many guitars and it adds so much to what we are doing. The kit mando sounds pretty rough so i decided to invest. The issue is that i am a fake mandolin player.. i am a chord strummer so I don’t know what the heck I’m doing. There are very few mandolins for sale down here, 8 to 10 I think between two shops and. I had money in one shop and ended up with a Collings MT.

The skinny V neck is killing me. I have adjusted hand position which has helped some but my chords are not clear and i find it difficult. I visited another shop and played a Weber Gallatin and found that i hit chords cleanly and over all it was more fun. There is no comparison in sound. The MT is more responsive, more articulate and gorgeous. Eyes closed i choose the MT. The Gallatin is more mid range and bass and not as much volume but easier to play, I actually liked the warmer tone even if it was not as sparkly. It may be easier to sing with. The MT has been played for a total of maybe 5 hours. I think i may need to sell it and buy the Weber but based on what i am reading, people love the V neck. With my guitars I much prefer a smaller profile neck,. It’s faster and more comfortable. Anyway... I feel some tendinitis setting in.. what am I doing wrong because this is supposedly a great neck and because I don’t play very sophisticated stuff, maybe I am doing wrong but i feel inclined so sell this ASAP as its brand new and just buy the Weber. I am wiling to take a financial hit vs tendonitis. I may have made a rather expensive error. What the heck am i doing wrong and why do I hate a neck that all real mandolin players seem to adore ? I really want to love this thing but it’s not happening.
Thanks for the feedback

[tiltman]

I started with a Weber Y2K and a year later "upgraded" to a '50's Gibson A-50.
When I started to get "seriouser" about the mandolin I purchased a Gibson F-9. Loved the look and the sound of that mandolin. Really loved it. But...I didn't know about neck width and shape at the time. (live and learn). The F=9 had a 1" neck - exactly - at the nut and a very pronounced V shape to the neck.
I had to let it go. Find something that works better for your hands and don't look back.

Kirk

[multidon]

Neck size and neck profile is very much a personal preference on any string instrument. Different strokes for different folks. You state that you prefer a smaller profile guitar neck. But some people like the old 50’s Gibson baseball bat necks. You have to try a bunch to find out what works for you.

Another clue to your troubles is that you call yourself a “fake mandolin player” I’m guessing you are largely self taught. You want to know “what the heck you’re doing wrong”. The truth is, none of us have any idea how to answer that, unless we could actually see you play. You invested a tidy sum in the MT, why not invest a few dollars more into some lessons with a good mandolin teacher? There is no substitute for one on one. If you have a basic flaw in your technique, I’ll bet it will be solved after only a few lessons.

Without being able to effectively trouble shoot your technique from afar, I will speculate that, since you have such a lot of guitar experience, you may be making some mistakes that are common with guitar players picking up mandolin for “something different”. You must remember, it is not a little guitar, nor should it be played like one. Hand position is more like violin technique, with the left hand positioned so that the fingers are pointed towards the bridge, not at a right angle to the neck like they are with the guitar. Also, many guitarists are “grinders” on the mandolin, using way too much finger pressure when fretting the strings. A light touch is all you need. Just enoughfor the string to make contact with the fret. Going all the way to the board is not necessary, and wasted effort.

I’m sure you will get a lot of other ideas here. But the best advice I can give you is to get some lessons.

[CES]

My first MT-level mandolin was a Silverangel Econo that's an excellent mandolin, but it also has a fairly pronounced V neck with a 1 and 1/8 inch nut and larger frets. It took me some time to get used to the neck shape, but I eventually did, and I've played it for 7 or 8 years now without issue. That said, I didn't have any tendonitis type issues, just had to get used to not putting too much pressure right on the ridge of the V. I think it's actually helped me to play with a lighter touch on all my mandolins. I owned an MT briefly and, compared to the V on the SA thought it was a very comfortable neck, but I turned it into a mandocello because I preferred the SA's tone (which is completely an individual thing, if you love the MT tone, then by all means, love the MT tone!).

That said, if your MT is causing tendonitis or other painful issues, I'd: 1) Check out Mike Marshall's YouTube beginner video on how to hold the mandolin. I'm not joking, there may be a technique fix with your guitar background that will make playing the mandolin more comfortable for you. (With your violin background, maybe not, but you should approach positioning your hand more like you would on violin than you do on guitar). If that doesn't work, then, 2) Sell it, buy one that's comfortable to play, and don't look back!! Any chance you could work out a trade for the Gallatin?

Good luck, and welcome!

EDIT: Looks like Don and I were simultaneously typing...

[Eclectic1]

No this is not a little guitar! I have been doing on line lesions and position lessons but serious lessons will help immensely. I think that the clincher was how much more natural that Weber neck felt. It felt friendlier.

[dhergert]

I used to have a very sore thumb and general left hand strain any time I played my F-9. It had a pretty severe V profile neck. It also had very worn traditional fine frets, and I had worn most of the finish off of back of the neck. I'm sure part of the hand strain was having frets that require huge pressure to use, but for my thumb, that V-profile was a killer.

Last year I took this mandolin to a builder and had him re-fret it with banjo-width Gold Evo frets, and while he was at it I had him gently soften the V profile to a C profile, and speed-neck and french polish the neck. And he did a complete setup. He did remarkable work.

These changes have completely changed this mandolin for me -- it's totally comfortable and easy for me to play now, and I get no thumb pain or left hand strain while playing.

The fret work I had done was getting to be mandatory, I was constantly fighting to prevent buzzing. The neck re-profiling was for comfort, but it has also made a huge difference. The total cost of this work was in the $500 range, and I've never had any regrets about having it done. I'd do it again in a second.

In your case with a newer instrument you probably don't need new frets, but having the neck re-profiled could be a big help. Some people love the V-profile, but if it's giving you pain, you need something else. The easy and less-expensive finish solution after a neck re-profile is a speed neck and french polish, otherwise you'll probably want a re-finish which can cost a lot and take some serious time to do.

You'll want to make sure whoever does this work for you is competent for the whole project. For me the nice thing about having a builder do this work was that I could look at the mandolins he had built and could see obvious quality.

Of course, the other option is to sell or trade into something that doesn't have the V-profile.

[Trich]

As stated before, some people like the pronounced V and some people don't. Half of the reason the classifieds are so stacked is because people end up finding what they like from a mandolin by purchasing a slew of them before finding what they like. I really do feel as though it comes down to what you get used to rather than what you find comfortable right away. After all playing an instrument for the first time (when learning) is rarely ever comfortable. I worked at a music store for years and found I played so many different styles of instruments that I was able to forget about particulars like nut width or neck size. With guitar, I really like a huge chunky neck. I have a 58 reissue es335 with the stereotypical baseball bat neck and it feels incredible to me. To contrast that, my F model has a relatively thin neck with more of a rounded profile. I have become very accustom to it. That's why I feel like its more about what you get used to. Your issue may be that you have gotten used to your old mandolin and your MT has a drastically different profile and feel.

[Eclectic1]

My first MT-level mandolin was a Silverangel Econo that's an excellent mandolin, but it also has a fairly pronounced V neck with a 1 and 1/8 inch nut and larger frets. It took me some time to get used to the neck shape, but I eventually did, and I've played it for 7 or 8 years now without issue. That said, I didn't have any tendonitis type issues, just had to get used to not putting too much pressure right on the ridge of the V. I think it's actually helped me to play with a lighter touch on all my mandolins. I owned an MT briefly and, compared to the V on the SA thought it was a very comfortable neck, but I turned it into a mandocello because I preferred the SA's tone (which is completely an individual thing, if you love the MT tone, then by all means, love the MT tone!).

That said, if your MT is causing tendonitis or other painful issues, I'd: 1) Check out Mike Marshall's YouTube beginner video on how to hold the mandolin. I'm not joking, there may be a technique fix with your guitar background that will make playing the mandolin more comfortable for you. (With your violin background, maybe not, but you should approach positioning your hand more like you would on violin than you do on guitar). If that doesn't work, then, 2) Sell it, buy one that's comfortable to play, and don't look back!! Any chance you could work out a trade for the Gallatin?

Good luck, and welcome!

EDIT: Looks like Don and I were simultaneously typing...

Actually I did offer a trade but he was not interested, there were only 4 in the shop, it’s not their thing. South Florida is lacking in wooden instruments. I checked out mike Marshall’s video just last night and made some adjustments. The flashbacks of wrist adjustments came back to me. This is all really good feedback and this place has so many cool links to lessons I’m really happy I found it. After 8 yrs of noodling it about time I start advancing and doing it right.

[Jeff Mando]

The other side of the coin and coming from the vintage guitar world, you can't always pick your options, after the fact. Often, working in a vintage guitar shop, we would hear, "hey this guitar sure has a skinny neck -- I don't think I can even play it!" My boss would reply, "I bet if you play it for 15 minutes, you'll get used to it." 9 times out of 10 they agreed. Don't know if that applies here and to mandolins.

We live (today) in an era of internet experts and I would say much of our information comes from online opinions, rather than actual experience. In the old days, people played for years on equipment that was perfectly acceptable, but would be rejected today due to increased information and choices. Funny how that works.

On the other, other hand.....if you know what you want, I say go for it. I do think all the "options and extras" might translate into greater playing comfort, which should encourage more practice, learning, enjoyment, etc., IMHO

[Timbofood]

I stand by my post in the other thread.
If it’s not comfortable, it may simply never be comfortable.
If the other feels “right” you will want that feel.
What was I not taking into account Mike?
And, one does not get “seriouser” one gets more serious or just decided playing the Mandolin is just more fun that you could have guessed!
It’s the English teacher parents, sorry!

[MikeEdgerton]

What was I not taking into account Mike?

Now, don’t tell your wife I said anything about buying the other Mandolin at all, I will deny it!

I am actually a female music maker and my significant other was so not on board with me doing this so you nailed that one too (he is also a musician - a much better one than I)

I don't think she has a wife.

[Rodney Riley]

I had the thumb and hand pain when I played my Weber Gallatin F-style for any length of time. I play a Godin A-8 with the church band. When head stock cracked and I sent it back to Weber for a neck replacement, the new neck did not have the sharp V. It’s a joy now to play with my old hands. The “C” shaped neck definitely works for me.

[Eclectic1]

I don't think she has a wife.

Ha !! No I don’t but I loved that last line because he was sooo right. Just a gender error. The dynamic was spot on though

[Eclectic1]

I had the thumb and hand pain when I played my Weber Gallatin F-style for any length of time. I play a Godin A-8 with the church band. When head stock cracked and I sent it back to Weber for a neck replacement, the new neck did not have the sharp V. It’s a joy now to play with my old hands. The “C” shaped neck definitely works for me.

The Weber Gallatin that I played had a C neck which was very familiar and comfortable.

[renoyd]

I understand what the OP is experiencing. Yes, good left hand holding technique is important and may even lead to the MT V-profile, (somewhat of a pointy parabola), becoming more appreciated, but then maybe not. I tried a heck of a lot to love it but it didn’t happen and had to sell my MT before my hand gave out, it was painful. The more gentle shapes closer to a D or C profile (or blunt parabola), work a lot better for me and many others as well. You may want to keep playing it and taking good care of it for a while investigating potential newish MT reselling values and exploring alternate brands on the Cafe classifieds and discussions. (The hit may not be as drastic as you first thought). Trades are a possibility too. Besides the Webers there are also Pavas (nice necks) and several others in the similar price range to consider. Call and chat with the helpful guys at the Mandolin Store. If every city was like Nashville, all this would be so much easier! Could be the beginning of a beautiful relationship with MAS!
Dean

[darylcrisp]

i've owned a couple Collings, Webers, Pava, Northfields, Gibson. Started on wifes Weber. I've come full circle and figured out the Weber necks just fit me perfect-i struggled with some of the others. All of them were top shelf instruments, all of them had different neck profiles vs each other.
With the Webers, i don't even think of the neck, i just get to play-it fits me that well.
I say buy that Weber and start enjoying your time spent on mandolin.
As others mentioned, you might ring up Themandolinstore, i'd say they might trade with you on that MT as they sell both brands.
Great folks, got my Weber there about a year ago, its wonderful.
Best of luck
d

[rowka]

Is there no chance of returning it where you bought it?

[Timbofood]

Is there no chance of returning it where you bought it?

And the obvious comes to the front!
Yes, given the short amount of playing time you might have to eat a restocking fee but, to get the one that feels like an old friend, I’d do it.
Once you get it, leave it in a closet for a month then tell spouse “That old thing? It’s been here for ages!” A la Lucy!
You’d probably still have some “Splainin’ to do” but, hey what the heck!
Daryl makes a good point too, see what can be done, you should have the instrument that makes you happy.

[UsuallyPickin]

Yeah neck shape matters. But setup is as important. Then there is just getting used any mandolin. And string gauge has to be taken into account. I have not read many of the suggestions but how you are holding the instrument makes a huge difference. A mandolin is not a little guitar. Look into the ergonomics of playing a mandolin. Insofar as fiddle compares to mandolin. Playing one is not even in the same ball park. Knowledge of where the tones are laid out is helpful and does translate well from mandolin to fiddle. From fiddle to mandolin will probably be different as chords likely aren't part of the thought process for many violinists. Luck... R/

[dang]

I had a standard Collings MT and at 1 1/8” the neck felt pretty small to me; my left hand would cramp up with longer playing times. I custom ordered an MT-2 with a wide neck (1 3/16”) and absolutely love it. YMMV

The first did seem to have a sharper V profile and the wide neck a more C shape.

I did take a little bit of a hit on the cost but in retrospect it was money well spent. Good luck with your decision!

[Randi Gormley]

"why do I hate a neck that all real mandolin players seem to adore/"

hmmm. I appreciate hyperbole, but 1) you're a real mandolin player and 2) everybody likes something different or else we'd all have the exact same instrument.

The MTs I've played I didn't like. They just didn't feel right. Wonderful instruments, just not my cup of tea. I played a strad-o-lin for more than a decade -- thing has a neck like a tree trunk -- until carpal tunnel and a bit of osteoarthritis convinced me that my hand is not really a fan of wide/thick necks. These days, I'm more comfortable with a modern, slim neck profile. I love playing my snake -- and certainly people on this site have said uncategorically that the one-inch nut makes the instrument literally unplayable. It may be -- for them. But it suits me fine. And you know, we're all mandolin players, amateur, pro, learner, strummer, melody-line or chorders.

So if the Weber feels better, don't apologize. We're not playing with your hands. Get the instrument that works for you.