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Thread: Question about Rubner tuning machines or a tale of 2 Collings

  1. #1
    Registered User jim simpson's Avatar
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    Default Question about Rubner tuning machines or a tale of 2 Collings

    I have a Collings MF5 and a Collings MF. I am very happy with both. The only issue I've been having is noticing that I have to fiddle a lot more with the MF5 during gigs than with the MF. I recently had the MF5 refretted with EVO gold so I have been playing it a lot more lately thus the noticing of the tuning issue. I know about the maintenance tricks as far as lubrication and alignment issues. I've been tempted to try the Rubner worm over gears but my MF5 has worm under. Will this change direction of the way I turn the gears to tighten? I don't mind experimenting as I will use the old gears on a build. Any thoughts?
    Old Hometown, Cabin Fever String Band

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    Registered User almeriastrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Rubner tuning machines or a tale of 2 Collings

    I would doubt this is related to the tuners. More likely other causes.
    Gibson F5 'Harvey' Fern, Gibson F5 'Derrington' Fern
    Distressed Silverangel F 'Esmerelda' aka 'Maxx'
    Northfield Big Mon #127
    Ellis F5 Special #288
    '39 & '45 D-18's, 1950 D-28.

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    Default Re: Question about Rubner tuning machines or a tale of 2 Collings

    Check the nut slots to make sure they are correct for your string gauges.
    Also, you can't swap over for under on the worm gears.
    I'd checkout the Schaller GrandTune if you're looking to swap out
    https://schaller.info/en/gt-mandolin...564.70.20&c=31
    Click image for larger version. 

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    $164 on ebay if you want gold
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Schalle...D/362425731713

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    Registered User almeriastrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Rubner tuning machines or a tale of 2 Collings

    The tuners fitted to MF5's are normally either (excellent) Gotoh's or optionally, Waverly's...

    Neither of these would cause any kind of tuning problem.
    Gibson F5 'Harvey' Fern, Gibson F5 'Derrington' Fern
    Distressed Silverangel F 'Esmerelda' aka 'Maxx'
    Northfield Big Mon #127
    Ellis F5 Special #288
    '39 & '45 D-18's, 1950 D-28.

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    Default Re: Question about Rubner tuning machines or a tale of 2 Collings

    Additionally, if you're the original owner, your instrument has a lifetime warranty. I'd contact Collings and see what they can do for you.
    repairs@collingsguitars.com

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Rubner tuning machines or a tale of 2 Collings

    ''Worm over'' or ''worm under'' isn't the point when it comes to ''which way you turn the tuners'' - it's to do with 'which direction'' the worm gears run.

    Look at these 2 pics. one is my Lebeda & one is my Weber - both with Schaller tuners ,& both ''worm under''. However,look at the direction that the worm gears 'slope' - The Lebeda worms slope to the left,& the Weber worms slope to the right.. That's what dictates the way you turn the tuners. It's the same for 'worm over' tuners as well,
    Ivan
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    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
    Lebeda F-5 "Special".
    Stelling Bellflower BANJO
    Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
    Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.

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    Default Re: Question about Rubner tuning machines or a tale of 2 Collings

    The worm over/under issue has lots more going on than which direction you turn the buttons. If you swap one for the other (your tuner holes in the headstock are going to be in the same place they are now), your tuner shafts that you grab are going to be in a different place completely. They will not only look different, they might actually hit the sides of the headstock.

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Rubner tuning machines or a tale of 2 Collings

    Rubner makes worm under tuners as well or at least they did.

    The website only shows the worm over. Try sending them a message from the site. I could have sworn they were making worm under before they started making the worm over.

    OK, here is the Rubner worm under page. They may not have them in stock right now.
    Last edited by MikeEdgerton; Sep-10-2018 at 3:00pm.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
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    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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    Registered User jim simpson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Rubner tuning machines or a tale of 2 Collings

    Thanks everyone for the input and clarity. I did have a new nut installed along with new frets and have checked the slotting with my set of nut files. I'm not the original owner and the instrument is closer to 10 years old.
    Old Hometown, Cabin Fever String Band

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    Registered User Jesse Kinman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Rubner tuning machines or a tale of 2 Collings

    This is the reply I got from Kent George back in April when I asked about the worm under F style machines:

    “Hello Jesse,

    Thank you for your interest in the Rubner machines.
    The F style line is currently getting an upgrade to the gearing. We are working hard on this but it will still be a few months before they are available.

    Kent George”

    I guess they are still working on them. That’s one of the reasons I went ahead and got the Waverley’s instead, because my mandolin will probably be finished before they are ready, and I need something before then.
    Hope that helps
    2019 Tyler White custom F5 #17
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    rock in rôle Paul Statman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Rubner tuning machines or a tale of 2 Collings

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    Rubner makes worm under tuners as well or at least they did.

    The website only shows the worm over. Try sending them a message from the site. I could have sworn they were making worm under before they started making the worm over.

    OK, here is the Rubner worm under page. They may not have them in stock right now.
    Rubner is undergoing a refit for the worm-under F tuners. They say another couple of months..

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    Mandol'Aisne Daniel Nestlerode's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Rubner tuning machines or a tale of 2 Collings

    For what it's worth --which may be very little at the moment, I admit-- I had a set of Rubners fitted to my Vessel F5 a few months ago.
    Excellent tuners. I'm very happy with them.

    I do think that before you start changing hardware, it would be a good idea to have the MF5 set up. That may fix the tuning issue, and if the problem isn't the tuners then you will not have wasted time and money swapping tuners.

    Daniel

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    rock in rôle Paul Statman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Rubner tuning machines or a tale of 2 Collings

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Nestlerode View Post
    ..I do think that before you start changing hardware, it would be a good idea to have the MF5 set up. That may fix the tuning issue, and if the problem isn't the tuners then you will not have wasted time and money swapping tuners.

    Daniel
    Thanks, Daniel. This MF5 couldn't be any more set up! Everything else is exactly as it should be. If the holes weren't drilled correctly, I could understand it - but (in my experience) Collings don't deviate from their measurements.

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    Mandol'Aisne Daniel Nestlerode's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Rubner tuning machines or a tale of 2 Collings

    So the nut slots are true? The bridge is in the right place at the right height?

    If so, then change your strings before you put new tuners on. Even if you just put them on, change them. Sometimes you get a bad pack.


    Daniel

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    rock in rôle Paul Statman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Rubner tuning machines or a tale of 2 Collings

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Nestlerode View Post
    So the nut slots are true? The bridge is in the right place at the right height?

    If so, then change your strings before you put new tuners on. Even if you just put them on, change them. Sometimes you get a bad pack.


    Daniel
    Thanks, Daniel. I've had this mando for almost two years, and yes, the slots and bridge are at 100% of where and how they should be (I am rather particular about that). Many sets of strings have been thraped since then - two of them before installing a new replacement set from Stew-Mac.

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    Mandol'Aisne Daniel Nestlerode's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about Rubner tuning machines or a tale of 2 Collings

    I changed my Schallers for the Rubners because I have two mandos (a Vessel and a Mix F5) both with the same Schallers. I used to carry and store the Mix in a gig bag. At some point the Mix was dropped or bumped while in the gig bag, and the result was a damaged A string tuner. So I bought Rubners for the Vessel, and swapped its good Schallers for the damaged ones on the Mix.

    The damage to the A string tuner (long post) was nearly invisible. It simply would not hold tension while being played. So as I played, the string would slide out of tune, flattening ever more. (Really frustrating!)

    So it can happen to good equipment. But I did try just a out everything I could think of before I blamed the tuners.

    Good luck with your Collings!
    Daniel

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