Would appreciate help identifying Gibson Mandolin

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Worm over cog tuners or have they been turned around?

At some point in the 20s Waverlys changed to worm over, earlier on the oval-hole models than on the F5s.

[NickR]

"At some point in the 20s Waverlys changed to worm over, earlier on the oval-hole models than on the F5s."

I think that strengthens the suggestion that this mandolin was completed but shipped a few years later on. Here from the Mandolin Archive is detail regarding 82651- a snakehead. This mandolin also has worm over tuners which makes sense if it was finally completed andshipped in 1928 but not in 1925:

"1925 manufacture date (traditional estimates)
1928 shipment date, according to Spann's Guide to Gibson
Mandolin, Style A
Serial 82651 "

[Hendrik Ahrend]

"At some point in the 20s Waverlys changed to worm over, earlier on the oval-hole models than on the F5s."

I think that strengthens the suggestion that this mandolin was completed but shipped a few years later on. Here from the Mandolin Archive is detail regarding 82651- a snakehead. This mandolin also has worm over tuners which makes sense if it was finally completed and shipped in 1928 but not in 1925:

Absolutely. I had it wrong in post #24; of course we're talking about a 1927 shipment date.

[Polkadude]

See this mandolin in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlKEhB5CX5I

- - - Updated - - -

See this mandolin in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlKEhB5CX5I

[danb]

So A-model mandolins from 1922-1925 can be quite quirky about which catalog specs they match. A2-z was described on page 19 of Catalog "N" (image attached). This mandolin passes all the tests for an A2-Z for me- it's a blonde snakehead with back binding, a logo, and a black ring of binding added on the top. Note that the in-fill in the rosette is listed in the spec.. but you will often see them without this and clearly stamped A2-z as well.

Some get "A2-".. or reported as "A2=". How'd the "z" go missing? So far, we have no clear reason. We also don't really know why some stamped "A" have back binding.. or a silkscreened logo.. or other various combos (including the b/w bound tops but finished in black) that are seen.

I have never seen anything that made me feel a black-top snakehead was an "A2z", but I do believe that some dealers will err on the side of a higher valuation and describe a snakehead as a "Black A2z".



Here's a list of 60 that I documented in the Mandolin Archive:

A2-z list

[danb]

If the hallmarks of an A2Z are "any natural or black instrument with double bound top, bound board, and snakehead peghead", this one would appear to qualify...

I would remove "black" from that list, but you definitely have an A2-z!

Top binding is common to all but the Ajr
an inlaid "The Gibson" shows up on A1, A2, A2z, A4
Back binding is either a2, a2z, or A4
the black/white top binding is only on an A2-z or earlier A3 white-top model (discontinued as the a2z was introduced)

Variations:
- back binding appears on some labelled "A"
- silkscreen logo appears on some "A" models
- "a3 tops" (with the binding or rosette) appear on various other models
- there is at least one batch of blonde A4s complete with Fleur-de-lis inlay
- Some get flamed maple backs vs the more typical slab-cut birch
- tuners have 5 variations.. (wiggle end teens style, arrow end, arrow-end with silver plating and pearl buttons, square plates, square plates with pearl buttons)
- Pickguards will be 90% clamp style, a few outliers have the screw-in type implying a later ship date
- cases linings are typically light or dark green, and color fading is quite common in this range
- a4s can have a "Virzi tone producer" (I've only seen retro-fitted ones on other A models, though they do appear on F2 and F4)

[Polkadude]

Wow, thank you very much for the info...!
As a life-long Michigan resident, it's exciting to study these legendary instruments that were built right here in Kalamazoo.

[Polkadude]

This mandolin is now listed as an A2Z in the Mandolin Archive:
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/81287

[Polkadude]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvUW...ature=youtu.be

[Polkadude]

https://www.elderly.com/catalog/prod...mandolin-1925/

[Jim Garber]

I would remove "black" from that list, but you definitely have an A2-z!

Top binding is common to all but the Ajr
an inlaid "The Gibson" shows up on A1, A2, A2z, A4
Back binding is either a2, a2z, or A4
the black/white top binding is only on an A2-z or earlier A3 white-top model (discontinued as the a2z was introduced)

Variations:
- back binding appears on some labelled "A"
- silkscreen logo appears on some "A" models
- "a3 tops" (with the binding or rosette) appear on various other models
- there is at least one batch of blonde A4s complete with Fleur-de-lis inlay
- Some get flamed maple backs vs the more typical slab-cut birch
- tuners have 5 variations.. (wiggle end teens style, arrow end, arrow-end with silver plating and pearl buttons, square plates, square plates with pearl buttons)
- Pickguards will be 90% clamp style, a few outliers have the screw-in type implying a later ship date
- cases linings are typically light or dark green, and color fading is quite common in this range
- a4s can have a "Virzi tone producer" (I've only seen retro-fitted ones on other A models, though they do appear on F2 and F4)

Ok. How about more confusion. My trusty black A2 snakehead—that is how I refer to it was sold to me as an A2Z back in the 1980s. I believe it is similar (except for wear) as Andy Statman's. Specs are as follows:

-Inlaid "The Gibson"
-Back binding
-Hard to tell but I believe that the top binding might be outside—>inside as white—>black. In the light at least is seems like it is.
-Wide ivoroid band around rosette
-square plate tuners
-Pickguard is screw-in type
-Label says only A (no dash)

[pheffernan]

What about this one? https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/130628#130628

[Polkadude]

The 1925 Gibson A2Z snakehead mandolin, serial # 81287, that was the original subject of this thread is now for sale at Elderly Instruments:
https://www.elderly.com/catalog/prod...mandolin-1925/