1900 Vega bowlback Mandolin shipping prohibited materials

[Levoncampbell]

Hello! I have a 1900 Vega Mandolin, can’t quite remember the style, maybe #4. 35 rosewood ribs. It seems laden with endangered and prohibited materials (abalone, Ebony, ivory, rosewood etc). I am looking to sell it, but am in Canada and am curious if some or all of these prohibited materials can be shipped out of country? Forgive me, but I am ignorant of how to add pictures to my post at this time. Thanks for your time, Levon

[Levoncampbell]

Hopefully this works. My Mandolin looks nearly identical to the following picture but with a different pickguard inlay. Seems to have same rosette and almond shaped fretboard markers. Serial # 19440

[allenhopkins]

You will need to get a CITES-compliant certification that the restricted materials were "acquired before the provisions of the [CITES] convention applied," which should be fairly obvious for an instrument constructed in the early 20th century. I would guess that a recognized instrument dealer, especially one who deals on-line and ships regularly, could do this for you.

Here's the relevant appendix on "Pre-Convention Specimens."

[HonketyHank]

If the label does not show that it was made in the USA and your buyer is in the USA, you might also want to get some kind of authoratative statement to the effect that it was indeed made in the USA. This would allow the buyer to bring it in with no duties. But you still most definitely need to make sure everything is done properly with respect to CITES.

[MikeEdgerton]

Keep in mind that if the customs folks *think* it's in violation of CITES they can and will simply seize the item. You really need to do your homework on this and cross all the t's a dot all the i's.

[Levoncampbell]

Thanks for all the advice! I actually
Purchased it in the US, and drove it back with me. No issues there.

- - - Updated - - -

And it does have the original paper label stating manufacture in Boston, mass

[pops1]

I am just throwing this out there, is it possible for you to drive across the border and mail it in the states should someone here purchase it.

[allenhopkins]

I am just throwing this out there, is it possible for you to drive across the border and mail it in the states should someone here purchase it.

Is it possible? Yes.

Is it a technical violation? Also yes. You're basically "exporting" the mandolin to the US; as such, regulations require you to pass it through Customs, pay any applicable duties and fees, and comply with CITES requirements.

The Customs people at the border will ask you if you're taking any "commercial items" into the US in your car -- or at least they could. There's a small probability that they might note that you had a mandolin in your car when you went "south," and that it wasn't there when you came back to Canada. If you had the instrument already packaged and addressed, and the Customs agent noticed that fact, you could be "busted" on the spot; I assume you'd be smart enough not to do this. However, if you packed it in the US, but labeled it with a Canadian return address, you'd again be running a (small, but non-zero) risk of being detected.

I bought a Waldo mandocello from a person in Canada, and it was shipped here directly. Whatever arrangements the seller made with US or Canadian Customs, are unknown to me. The instrument was made in the 1890's, so completely pre-CITES, but it had rosewood, ebony and ivory components.

I would say that the hassle you may get into "smuggling" the instrument into the US in order to mail it -- driving, making shipping arrangements, risking a Customs violation -- probably exceeds the hassle of shipping it to the US from Canada. But I may be wrong.

And remember: Gordon Lightfoot was once "busted" at the Canadian border for "'smuggling' undeclared guitar repairs into Canada," when he had one of his instruments fixed in the US, and didn't declare the value of those repairs to Customs. It's a weird world, sometimes, and US-Canada trade relations are currently not 100% friendly.

[pops1]

You are probably right Allen. My thinking was since the mandolin was returning to it's 'country of origin' there would be no duty so no problem there, and since it is obviously pre-CITES then it is not an illegal crossing. I am just thinking about things I have heard others say, so by no means take my opinion for law. The relations are somewhat strained at the present, and I won't get into that, so some consideration should be taken there.

[Levoncampbell]

Yes, the border isn’t getting friendlier of late. I think I’ll aim for a Canadian buyer and if that fails, keep it!