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Thread: considering an oval hole mandolin

  1. #51
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    Default Re: considering an oval hole mandolin

    CBGC - Collings fit and finish appears as close to perfect as possible with hands and machines. They don't say they're something they're not, so bashing won't do here. Their tone is a matter of personal taste, which can't be argued. They certainly are a finely made instrument, and i wouldn't be surprised if they generally sounded fantastic 50 years from now. Bill Collings was committed to quality and raised the bar in the industry...hats off to him.

    the celloronin - i was wondering about the 10 strings and am impressed that Don dialed that in also, as if the cello range itself isn't challenging enough. And the overall shape, detail and stain of the scroll are fantastic. He seems to have hit his stride with the finish and all the other aspects working together so well. It would be an easy choice if a L&H style was what i'm looking for. The more i look into his work the more i'm amazed. How did Don's design differ from the Monteleone? The peghead is incredible, which has me curious as to the rest of it.

    y1 - i am very much a Girouard fan, as they did a wonderful job on a mandola custom number for me. Max made the 17" scale play like a shorter scale, and their personal service is second to none. i found their enthusiasm to be contagious.

    rnjl - i will keep Parsons in mind should one pop up. Sounds like he's done some top notch work for you more than once.

    CHASAX - Thanks for the Pomeroy vote of conficence. It seems that Don has earned the respect of the Cafe in spades.

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    Default Re: considering an oval hole mandolin

    update: Looks like i've made a decision based primarily on tone. There are two examples of Silverangel oval holes on youtube, and they seem to have the sound i'm looking for. While there are some things i'd like in a custom build, the overall workmanship need not be on a Gilchrist/Heiden/Dudenbostel level. Ken can do a midwinter build, so the conditions will be somewhat drier, and i really, really like that about the Stanley. Not going to request distressing, as that seems to happen naturally when i play. All y'all have been really helpful and i appreciate it a whole big bunch.

  3. #53

    Default Re: considering an oval hole mandolin

    I think you will be pleased with a Silverangel. I have a redwood top cross braced A and it is as close as an f hole can get to the oval sound. But mine is slightly distressed. Looks like a well cared for 80 year old instrument. Ken builds in a rich G string.
    Silverangel A
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    1913 Gibson A-1

  4. #54
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    Default Re: considering an oval hole mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by dan in va View Post
    i'm slowly getting interested in an oval hole mandolin again, but i'm not sure the combination i'd like is out there. i only have two mandolins and am very satisfied with them (Stanley A5 and Martin A) but there is a void to fill with the right oval hole. There have been two in the stable, a '25 A snakehead, and a '23 F4 sans Virzi. The ears found their sound to be too tubby with weak E strings to stand the test of time.

    Not intrested in Gibson or the extreme high and low ends, such as Gilchrist and Pacrim offerings. But tone, playability and good workmanship are the main things. Even and good volume across the strings/up and down the neck, overtones, resonance, and sweet tone. Neck rather v shaped and 1 1/16" at the nut. Need not be fancy. The kind of mandolin i would have a lot of trouble putting down and folks would recognize its sweetness of tone and volume.

    There don't seem to be many out there like this for sale, so the piggy bank should be able to rest easy for a long, long time.
    What you described in what you are looking for describes my Girouard oval to my ear and eyes !

  5. #55
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: considering an oval hole mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by dan in va View Post
    update: Looks like i've made a decision based primarily on tone. There are two examples of Silverangel oval holes on youtube, and they seem to have the sound i'm looking for. While there are some things i'd like in a custom build, the overall workmanship need not be on a Gilchrist/Heiden/Dudenbostel level. Ken can do a midwinter build, so the conditions will be somewhat drier, and i really, really like that about the Stanley. Not going to request distressing, as that seems to happen naturally when i play. All y'all have been really helpful and i appreciate it a whole big bunch.
    Dan, I saw two videos from the Bradford and Franzke shop, one A model and one F model. Both sounded good but I really liked the sound of the F model. Just curious, which model you are going with?
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

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    Default Re: considering an oval hole mandolin

    Gibson A Ovals are loud and woody! I get a guitar-like bass and volume from my 1912 Gibby.
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    Default Re: considering an oval hole mandolin

    Br1ck - Good to hear you like yours and the thumbs up, and i agree on the sound thinking.

    yankees1 - i'm a big time Girouard fan also. Max is a superb craftsman and pays attention to detail like few others. For example, look closely at how the fretboard extension is so clean and perfect under the fretboard - i wish all builders would do that. The thing is that i'm looking for a different sound, which seems to be in Ken's camp.

    Charley - i stumbled onto those videos also and really like what i hear in them. Both those oval holes sound so good, and i might lean toward the A because of what he was playing. Ken and i are planning a plain Jane but elegant A style without plastic. i'm hoping to get an unplated Hamlett tailpiece and brass Rubner tuners with ebony buttons, maple binding on the top, ebony bound fretboard, and somewhat of a trapdoor style peghead that i'm pulling from pics on the 'net and an old '25 tenor neck. i'll be super pleased if it sounds like either the A or F in those videos.

    lflingpicker - There are some really good sounding Gibson ovals out there, and maybe one somewhere that would suit me. But i'm looking for a different sound all together, and i'm hoping the SA will do the deed. Glad your 1912 oval works so well for you.

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  9. #58
    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    Default Re: considering an oval hole mandolin

    (interesting morning read.)

    If you don't want a paddle- or snake-head clone and you don't want, "The Collings tone" it's seems a conundrum. Just great builders' names being thrown around! To me, I wouldn't know if any of them would be any better than an Eastman MD604; however. And, I haven't played one of them either.

    I love my paddle head Gibson. I love it with Thomastiks or J-74s. There are a few places where the intonation is wacky, but I kept it over two skakheads (one an A2Z). I also love my pancake and my Cohen. They all sound different.

    I'd love to recommend Dave Cohen, but he's moving his shop right now.

    I have heard great things about Old Wave and Parsons. Never played one; however.

    Have fun - back to coffee!

    f-d
    ˇpapá gordo ain’t no madre flaca!

    '20 A3, '30 L-1, '97 914, 2012 Cohen A5, 2012 Muth A5, '14 OM28A

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    Default Re: considering an oval hole mandolin

    f-d - Thanks for your thoughtful reply. There are a number of posts where you have good things to say about this paddle head. It sounds like a really good one that suits your playing. i've had 2 good sounding Gibson ovals and played a bunch at Chas J's in Richmond, but i'm looking for a more relaxed, responsive, complex and resonant/but not tubby sound than those i've heard or played. No doubt the Collings and others are finely made ovals, but that sound isn't what i seek. While there are some great Gibson ovals that lack nothing, generally the Gibson sound and short neck aren't what i'm looking for.

    Unfortunately, beyond my limited experiences i have to rely on sound clips and videos. And while i've listened carefully to sound clips of builders like Collings, Cohen and Girouard at the other end of the spectrum than Gibson generally, they aren't what i'm hoping for either. This computer sound system isn't a substitute for being there, but it can be pretty accurate when compared with of known instruments and recordings. So far the tone i've liked best seems to come from Silverangel - the f holes are pretty close to what i'm hoping for in an oval, and the 2 videos of the ovals seem to be right there. i don't mind that Ken's mandolins aren't perfect looking, and i end up distressing it naturally myself. It will ultimately be another case of paying the money and hoping for the best.
    Last edited by dan in va; Sep-15-2018 at 11:43am.

  11. #60
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    Default Re: considering an oval hole mandolin

    Dan, I'm sure you will be pleased with Ken, I just ordered a Custom Econo A and he is already knee deep into the build after only a few days. I agree completely with your assessment of the tonal quality of the Silverangel mandolins. There is just something about them that is awesome IMO.

    Good luck!
    aka: Spencer
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  13. #61
    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    Default Re: considering an oval hole mandolin

    Okay, Dan, that makes sense. I get that you can standardize sound through your laptop.

    You seem to be making progress!

    I'll look for the photos! All in good time!

    f-d
    ˇpapá gordo ain’t no madre flaca!

    '20 A3, '30 L-1, '97 914, 2012 Cohen A5, 2012 Muth A5, '14 OM28A

  14. #62
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    Default Re: considering an oval hole mandolin

    soliver - i'm very much looking forward to your impressions of your SA build. We seem to think the same about tone, so i'm hoping that's how they really turn out for us. And a HUGE thanks for posting the pic of the "old violin" stained SA in your "Officially joining the Silverangel Fray" thread (see bottom of page). i REALLY like how that one looks. And besides, i'm a real sucker for a fretboard without position markers on the face.

    f-d - Glad i could make sense of my direction this time around. Not that it matters, but i'm using a decade old Mac that's much bigger than a laptop and smaller than the full size mainframe beast. There are no doubt higher end sound systems than this Altec-Lansing double speaker w/ subwoofer, but it really honks in this particular small room. i'll let you know if and how the oval project works out.

    Here's the latest thinking: A honey colored stain to somewhat match the redwood top was the initial plan, but that might showcase any little imperfections. Most of Ken's usual distressing jobs didn't really catch my eye, so i got to wondering if there was another method that would suit me. Then i started looking at the pic in the "'Old Violin' finish mildly distressed with gold colored hardware" thread. i'm planning unplated hardware/EVO frets and this finish is just the thing that i didn't know i wanted but really suits me. It will likely also compliment the way Ken builds. Like so many others, i've always wanted a mandolin finished similar to WSM's famous F5 and this is a golden opportunity to get that. i don't even know why i've never thought of that before. As the local used care dealership slogan goes, "Everybody rides!"

  15. #63
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    Default Re: considering an oval hole mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by dan in va View Post
    soliver - ... a HUGE thanks for posting the pic of the "old violin" stained SA in your "Officially joining the Silverangel Fray" thread (see bottom of page). i REALLY like how that one looks. And besides, i'm a real sucker for a fretboard without position markers on the face.

    Here's the latest thinking: A honey colored stain to somewhat match the redwood top was the initial plan, but that might showcase any little imperfections. Most of Ken's usual distressing jobs didn't really catch my eye, so i got to wondering if there was another method that would suit me. Then i started looking at the pic in the "'Old Violin' finish mildly distressed with gold colored hardware" thread. i'm planning unplated hardware/EVO frets and this finish is just the thing that i didn't know i wanted but really suits me. It will likely also compliment the way Ken builds....
    My pleasure to have shared! When I started looking into the SA "Econo A," I searched the Cafe forum and when I saw that Econo A that Ken posted in 2016, I fell in love with the look and started saving! I initially intended to get an oval hole too, but I was so uneasy with how it would suit my standard playing scene (weekly BG jam), I decide to just upgrade from my Eastman to a custom built ff hole and work towards an Oval for my next go-round. I'm still debating on whether or not to sell my Eastman because I was surprised at how much I preferred its tone to a lot of other stuff when I was given the opportunity to play a bunch of stuff.

    The deal was clenched when I took the time to meet up with OldSausage (David Mold) at his house (local to me) and try out his Silverangel... What. A. Machine. that mandolin was. It had the absolute most "I-want-that" tone. Deep, throaty, woody, full. resonant... just absolutely lovely... so much so that I had David give me the serial number off his so Ken could look into his records and recreate it with the same woods (Cedar and Soft maple).

    Thus far I can tell you that I am incredibly impressed with Ken. I was emailing him Thursday last week about options, so he asked for my cell number to text some pics to me and then he had a headstock ready Friday and had the sides formed, top carved and sanded, braced and then glued to the sides by the end of Saturday... He wastes NO time from what I've seen. I believe my completion date will be mid October and I am very much looking forward to it.
    aka: Spencer
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    Default Re: considering an oval hole mandolin

    f-d - i was pleasantly surprised with how the Eastman oval hole mandolin sounds, which is similar to some snakeheads i've played but a different sound than I'm after.

    soliver - Your SA is really taking shape and i hope you'll keep the pics coming. It won't be easy to wait for a winter build. Great tip about the one piece backs - i'll ask Ken to pick one out that will sound good on and oval hole model. Keep us posted. And I'm also a fan of David Mold's sound he gets from his SA.

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    Default Re: considering an oval hole mandolin

    On EBay I’ve bought a few of those solid wood mail order mandolins from the 20s and 30s, solid maple, the tops and backs are slab cut maple and not quarter sawn, but never had a clunker. You’ll need some setup skills or a friend who will help, as well as knowledge on regluing seams (used hide glue please, but you can use Elmer’s). Maybe you could use this as an opportunity at honing your luthiery skills. Mind you, they aren’t pretty mandolins, but they’re solid maple.

  18. #66

    Default Re: considering an oval hole mandolin

    Ken can finish a mandolin anywhere between shiny new and played hard for 70 years in a bluegrass band and all points in between. Mine is like a sixty year old mandolin that has lived a good life. There is cracked binding with some shrinking, a few dings here and there, sunken finish on the top, and some string scratches around the headstock, plus some bruising that looks to have been string winder use. Just a great patina.
    Silverangel A
    Arches F style kit
    1913 Gibson A-1

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