Practice Method of the "All Time Greats"

[LastMohican]

So, thinking about Thile, Bush, Steffey, Monroe, et al...

How do they practice?

How often/duration?

To the degree any of you have insight on actual practice methods of any of the great players, please relay to the rest of us.

If not, give your best analysis...how do you think they practice?

Your Brother in MAS,

Tuck

[sblock]

I suspect this question is akin to asking something along the lines of "what is their favorite pick" or suchlike. Their practicing habits are bound to be vastly different. Their talents are vastly different, and their musical proclivities are vastly different. What they likely have in common are long periods spent playing and exploring their own instrument, both alone and with others. As for the rest, it's probably as different as their personalities.

[JeffD]

I have read that Chris Thile practices for eight hours a day, and that he is a very focused practicer. I think I got that from an interview somewhere.

[JeffD]

The thing is, I will never ever be one of those greats. Its those ten years before I was born that i wasted not learning mandolin.

So modeling one of the greats, to me, would be like learning driving from watching or emulating Dale Earnhardt. Man, I just want to drive to work.

For me, (and only for me) I try not to use the great mando-heros as my guide. As my inspiration sure, but not as my guide. So I came up with a practice schedule that is do-able, manageable, and keeps me moving forward. It is easy to remember: Get behind the mandolin every day I am alive.

So I look down and see if I am still sucking wind, and if so, I get behind the mandolin or ask myself why not.

That in itself has so many advantages and puts one so far out there compared to the rest that it is almost irrelevant what I do during the practice. Not irrelevant, but but just picking up the mandolin every day is 80% of it.

[DavidKOS]

If you consider mandolin greats outside of the Americana/Bluegrass genre, then there is a lot to consider about practice routines.

https://online.berklee.edu/store/pro...46180&usca_p=t

"00125040_Watters_200
Learn the techniques, common practices, and essential repertoire of the classical mandolin. In this book, you will learn long-established mandolin techniques and their contemporary applications."

"Learn mandolin techniques drawn across several centuries and worldwide traditions, particularly North America, Germany, Italy, France, and Japan
Study articulation, picking, and arpeggio practices, including alternate picking, rest strokes, glide strokes, compound picking patterns, tremolos, trills, and more"



https://www.homespun.com/shop/produc...ical-mandolin/

"Caterina introduces concepts and exercises that will affect pick speed and accuracy, scales, vibrato, tremolo, arpeggios, left hand fingering, harmonics and more. "

[V70416]

I think Thile once remarked that he took a "gladiator mentality" toward mandolin practice,especially early on.

[pointpergame]

This is an interesting question. Of course the answers are going to vary from great to great. And the line isn't always sharp between "practicing" and "sitting around jamming." It would be intriguing to hear that some of them don't practice at all...I can imagine that a Bill Monroe, playing a gig every night, might only have had time for going over a few songs with the guys during the bus ride to the next town. It is unimaginable, on the other hand, that Jethro Burns didn't practice all day long, seven days a week. But did he?

In any case, the answers could be informative. I used to ask authors ( at book readings ) about their production routine. Alexander McCall Smith said he writes directly to the manuscript. That is, he doesn't write a rough draft then revise. First, that makes him a freak of nature and second, that explains his incredible volume of work. I suspect there are similar insights in hearing about the production routine of successful mandolinists. I find it somehow comforting to learn that Chris Thile has to work hard to be Chris Thile.

[William Smith]

I heard John Duffey hardly practiced! I imagine when one plays gigs all the time they don't practice much unless going over a new tune?

[LastMohican]

If you consider mandolin greats outside of the Americana/Bluegrass genre, then there is a lot to consider about practice routines.

https://online.berklee.edu/store/pro...46180&usca_p=t

"00125040_Watters_200
Learn the techniques, common practices, and essential repertoire of the classical mandolin. In this book, you will learn long-established mandolin techniques and their contemporary applications."

"Learn mandolin techniques drawn across several centuries and worldwide traditions, particularly North America, Germany, Italy, France, and Japan
Study articulation, picking, and arpeggio practices, including alternate picking, rest strokes, glide strokes, compound picking patterns, tremolos, trills, and more"



https://www.homespun.com/shop/produc...ical-mandolin/

"Caterina introduces concepts and exercises that will affect pick speed and accuracy, scales, vibrato, tremolo, arpeggios, left hand fingering, harmonics and more. "

Your point is well made and there is absolutely no question that any player could learn great things from the accomplished players of other genres. I listed the players I did because I am very focused on the mandolin players playing "roots" music.

[LastMohican]

This is an interesting question. Of course the answers are going to vary from great to great. And the line isn't always sharp between "practicing" and "sitting around jamming." It would be intriguing to hear that some of them don't practice at all...I can imagine that a Bill Monroe, playing a gig every night, might only have had time for going over a few songs with the guys during the bus ride to the next town. It is unimaginable, on the other hand, that Jethro Burns didn't practice all day long, seven days a week. But did he?

In any case, the answers could be informative. I used to ask authors ( at book readings ) about their production routine. Alexander McCall Smith said he writes directly to the manuscript. That is, he doesn't write a rough draft then revise. First, that makes him a freak of nature and second, that explains his incredible volume of work. I suspect there are similar insights in hearing about the production routine of successful mandolinists. I find it somehow comforting to learn that Chris Thile has to work hard to be Chris Thile.

The thing I'd love to know is: do the very best players spend significant amounts of time engaging in an "exercise" type of practice, i.e. are they working on scales, arpeggios, etc. Or, is the time they spend focused on "technique" solely determined by the next piece of music they are trying to master?

[DavidKOS]

Your point is well made and there is absolutely no question that any player could learn great things from the accomplished players of other genres. I listed the players I did because I am very focused on the mandolin players playing "roots" music.

I sort of figured that - but the mandolin is "bigger" than one genre, and classical mandolin offers both the widest variety of playing techniques and a system for study.

Hence it's useful for all mandolinists to at least be familiar with the traditional way of playing the instrument.

Once you know your instrument, you can apply the musical knowledge to whatever style you play.

Happy "pickin' "

[DavidKOS]

The thing I'd love to know is: do the very best players spend significant amounts of time engaging in an "exercise" type of practice, i.e. are they working on scales, arpeggios, etc. Or, is the time they spend focused on "technique" solely determined by the next piece of music they are trying to master?

I've seen both.

Some players I know never practice anything but new tunes. They learn what they need to learn technically as they go.

Others, like me, prefer some form of straight technical studies - scales, arpeggios, picking exercises, etc. - and then apply that to musical pieces.

Most of us use some combination of the above.

[Northwest Steve]

Evan Marshall is amazing on mandolin and I was told that he practices all day. He would be very focused. He hit a wrong note during a duo concert and went home and practiced for two hours afterward.

[Drew Streip]

The thing I'd love to know is: do the very best players spend significant amounts of time engaging in an "exercise" type of practice, i.e. are they working on scales, arpeggios, etc. Or, is the time they spend focused on "technique" solely determined by the next piece of music they are trying to master?

As always, it depends. When I studied saxophone in college, I wasn't even allowed to work on "the music" until I had demonstrated proficiency with the "exercises."

However, when I started playing "the music," my professor urged me to notice how much of it was built around "the exercises." In short, there's almost no such thing as random notes strung together to make music. It's all derived from some relationship between either the notes themselves (as in a scale or arpeggio or interval), or between the note and the rest of the harmony.

So when you start playing a piece of music that has several chromatic notes in a row, it's obviously advantageous if you've mastered the chromatic scale. Then you just have to apply musicality to muscle memory, instead of learning both at one.

Same with jazz guys like Jethro -- he's obviously a master of harmonic relationships, but he wouldn't be able to apply those if he hadn't, at one point, learned the fretboard well enough to rip arpeggios over the chord changes.

I'd wager that most of these all-time greats learned the instrument inside and out in a classical "boring" way, before applying their harmonic ideas, dynamics, phrasing, etc.

As for current practice habits, it's probably more about working on the music, pushing their own limits, applying embellishments, studying other great players in all genres, etc.

[Mark Gunter]

A couple thoughts:

First, I think it's been said well already, they will each have different routines, and these things are not generally static lifelong, I'd guess that at different periods they've had different routines, but there would be a lifelong focus on either practicing or playing or both.

Second, I agree with JeffD's comments 100%.

Third, all that said, I do find it sometimes enlightening to peek into what these guys do.

Go to the Tim Connell interview here for a fairly detailed peek at his routine at the time of that interview, you'll probably find it very interesting. The question was asked, "Can you tell us about your practice routine?" and he answered in three lengthy paragraphs. https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/c...nell-Interview

[mandopops]

I like to read how accomplished musicians (not just Mandolin players, different instruments & genres) practice & develop their skills. If I read that some musician never practices & doesn’t know or wants to learn scales, arpeggios, music theory, etc, I don’t find it interesting or informative. I won’t spend much time considering that response, since I determined a long time ago, that didn’t work for me.
As for the “greats”, it’s too simple to label them as being born with some natural proclivity for some activity (arts, sports...), maybe some do. I always figured they spend countless hours, days, months, years, honing their skills.
Another thread was discussing about whether the Mandolin is easy or hard. When I’m asked if the Mandolin is easy, my response is it’s like any other instrument. If you want to play something easy (Twinkle little Star), it’s probably easy. If you want to play something hard (Bach Violin concerto) it will probably be hard. So you should pick an instrument you like & not think about if it’s easy or hard.

Joe B

[farmerjones]

In the passed I may have answered this like, they already know how to play so that's covered. But as I get older I know everybody deteriorates at a different rate. So it's likely some or all may work on the technical aspects. It's also likely, the sharpening comes in the context of a tune. Just as likely these pros simply speak mandolin, like we speak our Mother tongue. How much prep-work do we do before we go to the coffee shop to BS with our friends?

[Rob Meldrum]

A few years ago I was fortunate to sit in a small-group (not quite 100 people) presentation from saxophonist Kenny G. He played songs and answered questions from the group of (largely) high school sax students. Love his music or not, his playing is incredibly precise and fluid. I asked him what his practice routine was, and what scales he practiced, and his answer was very interesting. He practices about four hours every day, and he usually uses "circular breathing" for at least an hour at a time, meaning he is constantly playing for that whole period.

Rather than practice scales he likes to listen to music by other artists and isolate passages/solos that he finds especially compelling. He writes the passage out and then plays it until he has it memorized. Once memorized he practices playing the passage, then transposes it up one-half step and plays it again, then up another half-step, plays it again, and continues until he has gone up, and then back down, an entire octave one half-step at a time. He said it can take 2-3 weeks before he can play the entire passage all the way up and back down, without making a single mistake.

By the way, what a super-nice guy. He came to that session half an hour early, stayed after it was over to sign autographs for the kids, and didn't charge the organizer a dime.

[KGreene]

And then there are those with God given talent!! Our guitar player is 15 years old. He began picking up his grandfathers guitars when he was 11 years old. This kid is simply fantastic not only on the guitar, but mandolin, banjo and dobro as well... All of these fluently in 4 years (and has never had a formal lesson... other than youtube), and a few basic chords from his grand dad (who can only play rhythm). I fear we won't have him long, as other more prominent (higher paying and more exposure) local/semi-local bands are currently trying to recruit him.

Another thread was discussing about whether the Mandolin is easy or hard. When I’m asked if the Mandolin is easy, my response is it’s like any other instrument. If you want to play something easy (Twinkle little Star), it’s probably easy. If you want to play something hard (Bach Violin concerto) it will probably be hard. So you should pick an instrument you like & not think about if it’s easy or hard.

Joe B

I recently heard someone ask our fiddle player if a certain song we were playing (a Steel Drivers tune, I believe?) "was hard to play"... His response was "no, it's very easy to play, it's just really hard to learn"... I suppose that statement leans itself toward lots of practice ('perfect practice') for a majority of us, in whatever manner best suits the individual.

K

[JeffD]

Your point is well made and there is absolutely no question that any player could learn great things from the accomplished players of other genres.

I think it better, and easier, to learn great things from accomplished teachers of other genres, of any genre. What a great player does is of less interest to me than what a great teachers recommends me to do.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I strongly suspect that like most of us who've reached a certain level of expertise in our playing,that the top players play more to maintain that level than anything - unless,as was mentioned above,they're learning new tunes / songs,or maybe even a new technique. That's the basis of my own practicing. It's especially important as you get older & finger joints / muscles start to seize up.
Practice then takes on another reason for doing it - the sheer physical side of things. After 55 years of playing banjo,i don't play so much these days & when i do play ,does it ever show !. It takes me an hour or so to get my fingers moving,& another hour to get comfortable with it. At the off,it seems as though i've never played before !. So on mandolin,at 73 years of age,daily practice is important for that reason alone. Regardless of how well you know the songs / tunes & how good your fingering / picking is,if you physically can't hack it,then it's the end of the road,or a heck of a long haul back,
Ivan

[JeffD]

The thing I'd love to know is: do the very best players spend significant amounts of time engaging in an "exercise" type of practice, i.e. are they working on scales, arpeggios, etc. Or, is the time they spend focused on "technique" solely determined by the next piece of music they are trying to master?

From Jacob Reuven: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN2M8x7raN8

And that is the warm up!!

[LadysSolo]

What JeffD says above about daily practice is true - "Back in the day" when I started college as a music major, and was practicing every day for several hours, I could pretty much sight-read anything and play it well easily. Now that I am (many) years away from that and am lucky to practice a couple of times a week, it is much harder to be proficient. I can still read it easily but it is much harder to get my fingers to reliably be where they need to be. It usually takes several days' work in a row to get them back on track, and I usually don't have several days in a row to practice (work just gets in the way! Darn work!) BTW, I am not a natural talent, I work VERY hard to play not very well anymore.