Save or sell old piano? (Some mando content)

[Drew Streip]

Hi folks! I'm looking for opinions on what to do with an old piano. Here are some facts:

• We could use the extra space, and nobody plays it
• It has no real sentimental/heirloom value, because I don't know where it came from
• It's a Story & Clark upright player piano (not sure of the year or type / quality of wood present)

My real question is, in what form is this piano going to be most valuable?
1) as a whole piano to an interested buyer
2) as salvaged wood for me, an aspiring mandolin/guitar builder
3) as wood for a more experienced luthier

I need to make a decision soon. So far, I've only built kit instruments, but am pursuing making them from scratch.

I don't want to sell a valuable thing on the cheap just to gain a few extra square feet -- but I also don't want to break my back moving it downstairs, just to find out it's nothing special. Thanks! I'll try to get more info and report back.

[CES]

In general, pianos are hard to get rid of. You may be able to sell it very cheaply, but you’re probably not going to get anywhere close to what it’s worth unless you just get lucky. Heck, it’s hard to give them away these days...as you note they’re big, heavy, require maintenance (all things millenials don’t want to deal with), and the hammered electronic pianos are really good (and portable/storeable) these days. A friend recently advertised an early 1900s piano for free and had no takers. I tried to salvage some wood and ivory, but didn’t get anything that would have been useable for building a mandolin. There’s some good spruce and mahogany in some of those things, though...

[Seter]

I've always had a hankering for an instrument built from piano wood, so I'd vote for 2 or 3 unless 1 ends up being the case, rather than option 4, having it thrown in a landfill. Option 5 you might possibly be able to donate to some organization or another in need of a piano if you're feeling charitable, but again not sure how great the demand is these days(I have heard of cases of this though).

[pops1]

There are many for sale cheap or free, and not many takers. We gave ours to a family that wanted the children to have lessons.

[Amandalyn]

I had a tiger oak Seeger player piano that was working and a great novelty. Because I needed the space, sold it, but it took awhile. I put it on EBay for the best exposure and a collector contacted me to buy and drove from Tennessee to Florida to pick it up. There are also piano and antique “mechanical instruments”websites you could use for research. So there are people still out there looking for these. Just depends on the shape it’s in,etc. If the wood is the type for luthierie and you want to go to the trouble of cutting and dismantling it, you might could still sell some parts or repurpose part of it into a cabinet, etc. I would say the options of how much you could get for it vs. saving the aged wood (if usable).

[NursingDaBlues]

A little over 20 years ago, I bought a 1906 upright grand at an estate sale for $150; don’t remember how much I paid to have it moved to our house and set up. Then I had a piano tuner do his magic on it. It really was a nice piano; very well maintained and had a booming ragtime voice to it. I do remember thinking that, all in all, I didn’t spend a whole lot of money to have that kind of enjoyment in the house.

Apparently, nobody else feels the same about old, used pianos.

Last year, when my wife and I decided to move full time to Colorado, we tried to sell it. Then we offered it free to a good home. Even not-so-good-homes wouldn’t respond to our ads. Salvation Army and Goodwill kindly declined our offers to bring it to them. Finally, we just left it in the media room when we listed our house for sale. The nice couple who bought our house had piano removal as one of the stipulations to the contract.

Because yours is a player piano, there may be more interest. Amandalyn in Post #5 had some very good thoughts.

I wish you luck.

[SincereCorgi]

Does it work? That's a 'real' brand and there are people who like player pianos and would pay a reasonable price. The problem, of course, is finding them and getting the piano to them.

Around here, very tired old pianos are extremely common, and everybody intones the same story about how it 'came around the horn'. It's sort of the same situation as a broken grandfather clock, where it has this weird psychological field that keeps people from chucking it.

[Jim Garber]

Old uprights are the bowlbacks of piano world. As our own Mike E says, you can do a happy dance if you can get someone to take it away let alone you pay you for it. People desire only the highest end brands like Steinway, Bosendorfer, Knabe and maybe a few more brands but generally unless they are baby grands the old uprights, not so much.

I would imagine that deconstructing an old piano for the wood might not really be worth the effort either. I would think the soundboard would be quarter-sawn spruce but if it is really old it could have cracks in it and probably is pieced together from multiple parts. Please correct me of I am wrong about that. I certainly have never taken apart an old piano.

[CES]

Jim, that’s exactly what we found when we took apart my buddy’s. The sound board had nice spruce, but the 1/2 inch boards were laminated into a large piece and very difficult to separate the layers without destroying the boards. Also, the paneling was all veneered. Pretty wood underneath, but more effort than it was worth to get it useable. But, we were in the midst of a move and my patience was not at its peak, for sure...

[pointpergame]

1). Hard to get rid of, but it depends on the brand,quality, rarity, and even wow factor. Those huge art deco era pianos that dominated music for so many decades before ww II, are really tough. We had a beautiful and playable on the THIRD floor of a San Francisco apartment. I had to break it down into components just to get it to the street!

I've dismantled several pianos.

2). There's often some high quality ply in there. The foot board, the top, the slab above the keyboard, and the keyboard cover. Other than that, the work to usable wood ratio is generally too high to be worth the effort. The tuning pins are way too big for use on a hammered dulcimer, autoharp, harpsichord, etc. Cutting strings can be dangerous --- or at least the cut strings. After being snipped their ends are identical to hypodermic syringes.

3). There are several cities I can think of (NYC, Cincinnati, and Singapore ), where civic groups have painted up old uprights and put them out on the sidewalks for passers-by. Sort of goofy, really, but it's always fun to park at one of these and rattle off a few street-worthy boogie woogies.

[Folkmusician.com]

We had two uprights before our move From California. The smaller lessor value one was sold for $200. The nicer (and much larger) version was tough to give away.

[allenhopkins]

Working player pianos may have more of a market. Does it work from paper rolls, and is there a decent selection of the rolls? What vintage are they?

This store, for example, has a number of player pianos on sale for hefty prices. Might be worth contacting them to see if there's interest. Story & Clark is a respected name, and I see a number of their instruments for sale on the 'net.

[Ranald]

Having been through this a few years ago, I'd say that unless there's something very special about your piano (a concert grand, for instance), you won't be selling it, you'll be giving it away. Unless you decide you want the wood, give it to a good home where they appreciate the instrument, and you'll still have your memories.

By the way, seeing something for sale on the internet doesn't imply that it was actually sold on the internet. Asking prices can be misleading.
Good luck.

[DHopkins]

On YouTube, I've seen people ramdomly playing pianos in shopping malls and airports. I'm sure the pianos were donated and not bought. Just a thought.

[Seter]

I could see some trendy hipster bar being interested in one.

[darylcrisp]

I gave the one left in our house to a local church group that keeps kids after school. the kids liked it and some of the aids were players so they showed them some things. moved it by myself with well thought out and laid out 2x6x12's by sliding it on its largest most flat surface(its back), down 10 steps and onto my utility trailer. folks at the school helped me unload it.

good luck
d

[DHopkins]

I gave the one left in our house to a local church group that keeps kids after school. the kids liked it and some of the aids were players so they showed them some things. moved it by myself with well thought out and laid out 2x6x12's by sliding it on its largest most flat surface(its back), down 10 steps and onto my utility trailer. folks at the school helped me unload it.

good luck
d

On that same note, a church or school could use it for chorale/choir practice.

[Jess L.]

... player piano ...

I have two dumb questions:

1. Can player pianos also be played by humans, or are player pianos strictly for automated playback?
   
   
2. If humans can play them too, is the action/responsiveness of the keys comparable to a regular piano? Back when I played regular piano I would sometimes notice severe differences in key responsiveness between different *regular* pianos - for instance, our cheap old upright piano at home had a light easy touch (maybe it was just wore out?) whereas my teacher's big nearly-new grand piano had a rubbery stiff unresponsive feel to the keys which made it a lot more difficult to play soft passages or anything that required any finesse with the volume.

So back to the topic here, I'm wondering about player pianos, if they're also human-playable then is the responsiveness good, *or* - as a worst-case example - is it like playing a $5 toy electric keyboard with no velocity sensitivity?

If the latter, then that would make them nearly useless to students, as far to donating to someone as a learning tool.

[TC-in-NC]

Hi Drew

Just my two cents...

Restoration of old player pianos is nothing short of a labor of love. A close family friend rebuilt / restored two of them...one an upright Steinway and one a Chickering grand. Both of these are worth far more as pianos than as player pianos...even with the player mechanisms fully restored. My family had my Grandmother's upright player (Hammond) restored back in the late 70's...even back then there were only a few shops that would / could do anything much more than tuning / routine maintenance of the "regular" piano parts.

There are still some people out there who love and appreciate these wonders from a bygone era (the internet is your friend for this). Far fewer people that don't. And even fewer people who have the skill / time / desire to keep them running.

Much like that old bowl-back mandolin tucked away in Grandpa's closet....if it's a family heirloom / has sentimental value then it's likely worth preserving. If that's not the case though, much like that old bowl-back they fail to sell or be given away.

Does yours have an "art" case...where the piano has interesting carvings / features? If so, then there may be more interest in it.

Definitely check around online. If there's anyone in your area that does piano repair that's been in the business for a while you may want to ask them too...someone who's been in the business more than a few years and who's had some experience with "vintage" instruments such as this.

Hope this helps - good luck!

Tammy

[TC-in-NC]

I have two dumb questions:

[LIST=1][*]Can player pianos also be played by humans, or are player pianos strictly for automated playback?

[*]If humans can play them too, is the action/responsiveness of the keys comparable to a regular piano?

Hi JL277z

To answer your questions...

1) Yes. They are essentially a regular piano that has been fitted with a mechanism of some sort to play the keys. Older ones used vacuum and a large number of valves / tubes to achieve this. Newer ones use electronics / solenoids.

2) Yes...but...only if the piano has been cared for and maintained. A high-end piano that has not been maintained will not play as well as an "economy" model that's been properly set up and cared for. As far as action / responsiveness, I know that in pianos that's someone dependent on the preferences of the person doing the playing. It sounds to me though like your teacher's nearly-new piano could stand to have a tech come out and make some adjustments.

I'm not an expert on this subject by any means, but I've had some experience and have had opportunity to learn a thing or two about them over the years.

Hope this helps!

Tammy

[pointpergame]

The couple players I've tickled were stiff and a little unpleasant, but still playable.

I can satisfy your curiosity about upright vs. grand. The grand is one big harp, with strings going front to back, each regularly spaced side by side with its neighbors. The Grand's keys and escapements and hammers are also quite uniform. That is, they are similar in length and balance point. The hammers themselves are also similar in length, swing length, and inertia. It pretty easy to move from one grand to another grand for this reason. A snarly sounding little 4-foot grand can have the same feel as that big old Steinway ten-footer.

The upright, on the other hand, has at least two harps that run diagonally to each other. That action calls for keys and hammers that vary quite a bit in length and fulcrum point. There's also a big change at the crossover where the notes switch from the trebles (running diagonally from, say, the South West to the North east) to the bases running in the opposite direction.

So, on the grand, every key takes about the same inertia and, therefore --- the crucial point --- the same lead time between beginning a finger's motion and hearing the note. The delays can vary a great deal on many uprights. These crossovers are sort of fun. There's an appropriate and satisfying feeling to the longer lags down in the basses. And the musical spirit seems to delight in taking out the variations.

Having said all that, one of the best sounding pianos I've ever owned was a worn out old bar room upright. It was loose and wild and boomed magnificently in the baritone register. The felt bushings were well beyond broken in. Your teacher's grand probably was not.

[Drew Streip]

Hi Drew

....My family had my Grandmother's upright player (Hammond) restored back in the late 70's...even back then there were only a few shops that would / could do anything much more than tuning / routine maintenance of the "regular" piano parts.

There are still some people out there who love and appreciate these wonders from a bygone era (the internet is your friend for this). ....

Does yours have an "art" case...where the piano has interesting carvings / features? If so, then there may be more interest in it.

Tammy

Thanks for the info! It does not have an art case -- it's pretty nondescript, but in good-to-very good aesthetic condition. I remember my parents getting it tuned roughly 20 years ago, when they thought I might take piano lessons. Obviously that never panned out...

Can't remember if they worked on the player mechanism, though.

The top of the case is acting as a bookshelf right now, so I couldn't get inside last night to read a serial number.

The site that Allen Hopkins pointed to is only about an hour and a half away. I was interested when I saw that all their pianos are priced north of $17,000.... until I read that the cheapest restoration service is $14K, with 50% due up front and no guarantee that the instrument would sell.

If I had $7,000 laying around right now, I'd be looking at a small-shop mandolin or two

[Ranald]

I gave the one left in our house to a local church group that keeps kids after school. the kids liked it and some of the aids were players so they showed them some things. moved it by myself with well thought out and laid out 2x6x12's by sliding it on its largest most flat surface(its back), down 10 steps and onto my utility trailer. folks at the school helped me unload it.

good luck
d

In my case, my parents' big church already had one in every room where they could use one, the school and community centre had all they wanted, etc., etc. There are a lot of pianos out there, and the poor church wardens now have to turn down members' donated pianos, sometimes offending the donors. Give it a try though. I hate to think of good musical instruments going to the dump. I have an old children's violin that needs restoration at a cost of about as much as it would be worth. I'm not an amateur luthier, but I wish I could find one, as I don't have the heart to throw it out.

[oldwave maker]

Made tops for my family heirlooms from a dry 1909 upright when I was young. Took the 5/16" thick quartered sitka soundboard cutouts to a cabinet shop and ran them thru the panel sander. The beech 4x4 frame beams made unusable squirrely octave necks. Should have mounted the harp over the front door with a pick screwed to the top of the door to entertain entrants. Used one of the 'tone' buttons in front of the keyboard bed as an impotent accessory for my wife's mastertone. Every luthier should do this once. I was inspired by some English guitars made long ago for Peter Rowan......

[mreidsma]

Check out Zeke’s work the Salt City Found Object Instrument Works, he makes instruments exclusively out of found materials, and most of them are old pianos: https://scfoiw.blogspot.com/