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Thread: Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

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    Default Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

    As one of the many who found interest in the mandolin because of Bill Monroe, I find myself seeking more music like his earlier recordings. You know, where the mandolin playing is raw and loose, where virtuosity seems less important than attitude and power. All the modern players I find seem to value surgical accuracy and (IMO) needlessly complex arrangements, I want something spare and earthy to inspire me on my journey.

    Recommendations?

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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

    I just listened to both the early Stanley brothers collections and there’s some pretty powerful Mandolin presence on those. Try that for a taste.
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

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    Default Re: Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

    Listen to Mike Compton. He has the best of both.

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    Default Re: Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

    Yank Rachell, though rather different genre-wise than Bill Monroe.

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    Default Re: Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

    I would start here....raw and earthy as can be!

    https://www.discogs.com/Various-Vint.../master/746346

    Google it....it's available as hard copy and different streaming platforms......it's killer!

    Different genre wise as well, but I like to think it's where "The Father" got some of his influence from.

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    Default Re: Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

    Ronnie Thomas of Dry Branch Fire Squad

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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

    Roland White too! I have been listening to some early KY colonels on you tube brought back some great memories!
    He’s also just one of the nicest people I’ve ever met!
    By the OP’s initial question I had the impression he was looking for “Roots” BG players.
    There is so much power in the early pickers styles, it’s changed a lot since the “smooth generation” came on scene. Listen to John Duffey over the years, there’s some seriously raw power with a double shot of “Attitude”! Met him once, again, one of a kind. Dedicated a whole set to a friend that had to cancel her plans due to appendicitis! I was really impressed.
    One of the guys that I was lucky enough to actually meet as a stupid kid was Wendy Miller, another very kind, generous Mandolin artist. I very much thinkhe is an under appreciated musician. But, kindness doesn’t seem to enter in the equation as much as it should.
    That’s another story.
    Though neither Messers White and Miller are necessarily “roots” guys they are ambassadors (at least for me) in the art of playing.
    Should you ever get the chance to see these, or any, talents, try to make an effort to let them know how much you enjoyed their playing. I have a couple of stories about both of these guys that I’ve told time and again, they were instrumental in my choice of instrument.
    Learn the roots, you can then be pleased as your own branches grow!
    You’ve got to know where you came from to know where you’re going!
    Feel free to PM me if you want to hear the stories.
    Last edited by Timbofood; Aug-06-2018 at 5:33pm.
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

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    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

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    Default Re: Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

    That was some fine picking and bowing right there, all of them on Mandolin Tango. Those were the days before digital recording and a mike on everything. You had to stand up and be heard to play in the band.

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    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seter View Post
    Yank Rachell, though rather different genre-wise than Bill Monroe.
    Yeah! And Johnny Young! Those cats were on fire.

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    Purveyor of Sunshine sgarrity's Avatar
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    Default Re: Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

    Caleb Klauder....with Foghorn String band, with Reeb Williams, even in his country band. Give Town Mountain a listen too. And Travers Chandler, he's of the Buzz Busby school. Compton was already mentioned. These are all modern players of course.

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

    Listen to anything by ''The Vern Williams'' band - he's pretty 'raw' at times - great music,
    Ivan
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    Default Re: Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

    I agree with the OP--the more refined modern stuff is great, but nothing beats the raw, driving, basic sound of Bill Monroe with Charlie and in the early post-Charlie phase. Doc Watson didn't play much mandolin, at least recorded, but his version of What Does the Deep Sea Say is amazing and very early-Monroe-esque. Also check out the CD collection of Ralph Stanley playing clawhammer banjo. About 2/3 of the tracks feature mandolin and it is fantastic in that same way (I don't know who is playing mandolin there). When I had drifted into pretty much only playing clawhammer for a while, the drove and tone of the mandolin on that CD was what called me back--I just had to pick it back up (not that I can manage to sound anything like that.)

    Thanks for this thread, it will make for fun listening for sure.

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    Registered User grassrootphilosopher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

    Talking about early bluegrass mandolin that has a "raw" sound I would suggjest
    - The Stanley Brothers Columbia recordings (Pee Wee Lambert on Mandolin)
    - The Stanley Brothers Mercury recordings (Curley Lambert - no relation to Pee Wee - on mandolin
    - Buzz Busby is a must (for example here)
    - Red Cravens and The Bray Brothers should be on your list
    - Don´t forget the Lonesome Pine Fiddlers

    But don´t get me wrong. I do not think that they played with less virtuosity than lets say Sierra Hull. It´s just a different approach. What I often do not like about contemporary mandolin players is the slickness, that sometimes leaves the music bland and stale. Just like in cooking the number and the amount of spices does the trick and makes a recipe taste good. A book is not necessarily good when it has a load of words. A song is not great because it has lots of notes. A great example is "Not For Kids Only" (David Grisman). His mandolin parts are sometimes amazingly simple. But would you have played it that way? His arrangements are the pinnacle of taste here.

    So while we´re at it, in "newer" music you migth look for
    - Mike Compton
    - John Duffey
    - Ronnie McCoury
    - Ricky Skaggs (Boone Creek records or post Bill Monroe´s death recordings like on the "Big Mon The Music of Bill Monroe" recording)
    - Jimmy Geaudreau
    - David McLaughlin
    - David Davis

    With the exception of Jimmy Geaudreau and John Duffey these are all (to some extent) Monroe style players. If you like to branch out into other directions there´s a lot more to be discovered that is "raw" as opposed to "slick". (for example Sam Bush)
    Olaf

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    Default Re: Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

    Quote Originally Posted by oliverkollar View Post
    I would start here....raw and earthy as can be!
    https://www.discogs.com/Various-Vint.../master/746346

    Different genre wise as well, but I like to think it's where "The Father" got some of his influence from.
    Agree -- the southern string bands (often African American) probably had a big influence on Bill Monroe and his generation. A new band following that tradition is the Carolina Chocolate Drops.
    Exploring Classical Mandolin (Berklee Press, 2015)
    Progressive Melodies for Mandocello (KDP, 2019) (2nd ed. 2022)
    New Solos for Classical Mandolin (Hal Leonard Press, 2020)
    2021 guest artist, mandocello: Classical Mandolin Society of America

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    Rush Burkhardt Rush Burkhardt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

    +1
    John Duffey
    Ronnie McCroury
    Mike Compton
    Dick Staber (played w Del Mc and the Dixie Pals (70's?), Graves & Epitaphs, Just the Two of Us (with Judith Chasoff); excellent!)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

    Olaf, I listened to both the Stanley collections you brought up just last week on a road trip.
    PeeWee and Curly both have some real drive, it was interesting to return to listening to the early generation after not listening to it for so long. I’d just gotten away from that for a while, I just had not had enough alone time to really listen!
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

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    Default Re: Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

    I would second Seter's post. Yank Rachell is not bluegrass but good and raw.

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    Default Re: Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

    I'm glad to see that that I'm not the only one that thinks so many of todays " great" mandolin players are just too slick.To me BG music is at least 50% attitude, and so many of today's players just don't have it. Most of those discussed in preceding posts are 1st generation pickers. I know a lot of "unknown" local players with more attitude than most of today's stars.

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    Registered User Steve Sorensen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

    John Duffey - Seldom Scene Live at the Cellar Door. Brilliant.

    Steve
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    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Miller View Post
    I agree with the OP--the more refined modern stuff is great. . . .
    Yup, some of it, fer sher. But to my ears, only about 10% of any genre is great. Ninety percent of "the more refined modern stuff" is boring. For example, a lot of stuff on the Radio Show Formerly Called A Prairie Home Companion is just audio joint compound.

    (And, to stray a little off topic, the 10% tendency isn't absolute. I work in a big box store, and 100% of the programmed music we hear all day is pure, soul-squelching murder. It makes an hour seem like three.)

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    Default Re: Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein View Post

    (And, to stray a little off topic, the 10% tendency isn't absolute. I work in a big box store, and 100% of the programmed music we hear all day is pure, soul-squelching murder. It makes an hour seem like three.)
    When I shop at my local Lowes, I make the visit as brief as possible. The music sucks, it's torture and a little too loud. I believe some employee picks the playlist from their favorites or a sadist is behind the selection.

  34. #23

    Default Re: Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein View Post
    Yup, some of it, fer sher. But to my ears, only about 10% of any genre is great. Ninety percent of "the more refined modern stuff" is boring. For example, a lot of stuff on the Radio Show Formerly Called A Prairie Home Companion is just audio joint compound.

    (And, to stray a little off topic, the 10% tendency isn't absolute. I work in a big box store, and 100% of the programmed music we hear all day is pure, soul-squelching murder. It makes an hour seem like three.)
    I pretty much agree with all points here. I have a very low schmaltz tolerance, and the slick, smooth, soulless sounds that soundtrack visits to corporate chain stores leave me dreary for hours sometimes. Many popular mandolin players have remarkable technical prowess, but so much of it lacks zest to my ears.

    Checked out Yank Rachell and am really digging it so far. Reminds me of Robert Johnson and Howlin Wolf, both of whom I admire greatly. This actually makes me really excited to check out more mandolin playing along this early blues vein; I actually prefer this style to "pure" bluegrass, so it's really exciting to discover. One of the things I love about Monroe's playing is that is very, very bluesy I think.

    The Stanley Brothers stuff is also sounding really great to me.

    I'll continue working through all of y'all's wonderful and thoughtful suggestions--thanks so much!

    As an addendum to my OP, I am in no way adverse to modern musicians, so Mike Compton, for example, is really cool to me. I love watching him play on Youtube.

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    Default Re: Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

    I would add to the list of pickers you need to listen to for raw power Frank Wakefield. His output varied in quality over the years, but his best work is second to none. His work with Red Allen is outstanding. His album with Don Reno and Chubby Wise produced by Jerry Garcia called "Good Ol' Boys" has absolutely great picking: fast, wild and loose.

    Other pickers of note in this vein: Earl Taylor and Joe Val.

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    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Other primitive, raw mandolin music like early Bill Monroe?

    Wayne Yates with Red Allen & the Kentuckians, 1960's and '70's.

    I have this album on vinyl, and it has the unpolished early-bluegrass kind of "vibe" that you may be looking for. There's at least one other album on YouTube.


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