Critics

[yankees1]

Well, I have observed that are several types of critics of those who play music. First, there are those people who can't/don't play a musical instrument or sing and are overly critical in pointing out what a musician is doing wrong in playing or singing. My brother falls into this first type of critic and he has tried mandolin, dulcimer ,etc and finally gave up. Than, there are those musicians who come by music naturally or started when they were very young and are now a accomplished musician. These critics just don't understand why a player just doesn't get it ! Why someone can't tap their foot and play at the same time, someone who can't sing and play at the same time and someone who just can't progress very fast at learning to play. Than, there are those who only point out your good points and appreciate your playing no matter at what level you are at ! The nursing home crowd falls into this class of critics as well as many others who are accomplished ! Anyway, I just get disgusted when certain people just don't understand why I can't progress and play like Chris Thile ! I have no natural ability for music and I took up the mandolin at almost 64 years of age but I do play in a group at nursing homes each week and still practice a couple of hours each day and now 71 years old ! I just had to get this off my chest ! Sorry for the long narration !

[Willie Poole]

There is also a few folks that come up to you after a show and say how great your band sounded when you know you didn`t sound up to par, they just don`t want to hurt anyone`s feeling, they may belong the ACLU....One show I played some time ago a fellow came up to me and as the band leader I guess he thought I should listen to all of his comments, he said the banjo player that I had at the time was terrible, I told him to go tell the banjo player, also as a band leader when the band is doing a good job people talk to all of the band members but when we are not sound perfect they come to the band leader to make their complaints...Much like a baseball manager, he only hears comments when the team is going bad...

But that is why I get the big money, such as it is...

Willie

[Roger Moss]

There is also a few folks that come up to you after a show and say how great your band sounded when you know you didn`t sound up to par, they just don`t want to hurt anyone`s feeling, they may belong the ACLU....One show I played some time ago a fellow came up to me and as the band leader I guess he thought I should listen to all of his comments, he said the banjo player that I had at the time was terrible, I told him to go tell the banjo player, also as a band leader when the band is doing a good job people talk to all of the band members but when we are not sound perfect they come to the band leader to make their complaints...Much like a baseball manager, he only hears comments when the team is going bad...

But that is why I get the big money, such as it is...

Willie

You should be able to take into account that to a non - musician, a performance that may not be up to your lofty standards may in actuality have been pretty well done overall anyway, and the person is trying to complement you for a performance that they enjoyed hearing. If you made them happy, isn't that what you were attempting? Do you think Grisman would turn his nose up to a fan?

[yankees1]

You should be able to take into account that to a non - musician, a performance that may not be up to your lofty standards may in actuality have been pretty well done overall anyway, and the person is trying to complement you for a performance that they enjoyed hearing. If you made them happy, isn't that what you were attempting? Do you think Grisman would turn his nose up to a fan?

At the nursing homes we perform to every Wednesday you are correct ! The smiles, laughter and crying from the residents makes my day ! Performing for them makes their day as well and that's what it's all about !

[Mark Gunter]

Well, I have observed that are several types of critics of those who play music. First, there are those people who can't/don't play a musical instrument or sing and are overly critical in pointing out what a musician is doing wrong in playing or singing. My brother falls into this first type of critic and he has tried mandolin, dulcimer ,etc and finally gave up. Than, there are those musicians who come by music naturally or started when they were very young and are now a accomplished musician. These critics just don't understand why a player just doesn't get it ! Why someone can't tap their foot and play at the same time, someone who can't sing and play at the same time and someone who just can't progress very fast at learning to play. Than, there are those who only point out your good points and appreciate your playing no matter at what level you are at ! The nursing home crowd falls into this class of critics as well as many others who are accomplished ! Anyway, I just get disgusted when certain people just don't understand why I can't progress and play like Chris Thile ! I have no natural ability for music and I took up the mandolin at almost 64 years of age but I do play in a group at nursing homes each week and still practice a couple of hours each day and now 71 years old ! I just had to get this off my chest ! Sorry for the long narration !

You mentioned what you think are three 'types of critics' yankees1; your brother is type 1 (not in the race, but gives speeding tickets to those who are) and the senior home residents are type 3 (praise you no matter what) - I'm wondering about type 2. Who in the world is belittling you for lack of progress? Expecting you to play like Chris Thile? If I were you, I'd really avoid those guys.

[Mark Gunter]

In my experience, there is another type that I've known a bunch of in over 50 years of playing music in various settings. Those are fellow musicians who offer tips and constructive criticism, usually when you ask for it. Thankfully, I haven't been subjected to type 2 you mentioned. But I have played with guys who were way out of my league many times. None of those guys have been cruel though, and many have been helpful.

The least helpful ones I've met are ones who don't say much, but who can turn their nose up at folk who don't play their style. Bluegrass folk have been the worst at that in my own experience.

[AndyV]

You mentioned what you think are three 'types of critics' yankees1; your brother is type 1 (not in the race, but gives speeding tickets to those who are) and the senior home residents are type 3 (praise you no matter what) - I'm wondering about type 2. Who in the world is belittling you for lack of progress? Expecting you to play like Chris Thile? If I were you, I'd really avoid those guys.

Yes, avoid them. Then there's always the, "Here, why don't you show me how?".

[bigskygirl]

Just say “thank you for coming” and leave it at that. I have listened to bands and thought they did a great job and enjoyed the performance...when I said so all they did was put themselves down, learn how to take a compliment and say thank you. There was a thread last year on here by Aaron Weinstein with a link questioning the sincerity of a standing ovation...as a fan I felt insulted.

Being polite never goes out of style.

[colorado_al]

You guys are lucky! The critics I seem to get are the really drunk ones who hoot and holler and then vomit on your shoes. What number is that?

[allenhopkins]

... Then, there are those who only point out your good points and appreciate your playing no matter at what level you are at ! The nursing home crowd falls into this class of critics as well as many others who are accomplished !...

About two-thirds of my performances are for seniors, either in nursing homes, assisted living, memory care, or for seniors' organizations out in the community. At age 74, I pretty much fit right in.

Seniors in residence institutions don't have a broad palette of stimulating entertainment. The "activities" staff do the best they can, but a lot of the residents' day is meals, meds and TV. There's bingo, trivia, some light exercise, religious services at church-affiliated homes, but any stimulation's usually welcome. And those who study gerontology tell me that exposure to familiar music (which is basically what I play for seniors) reaches parts of the brain that aren't always accessed by conversation, TV, etc. When I see the lips of audience members following the lyrics -- even inaudibly -- I feel I've accomplished something.

So it's no surprise to me when I get positive feedback after a seniors' gig. Of course, the ones who didn't like my "show" aren't likely to come up to me afterwards and tell me so, so the response is a bit skewed. And I realize, as well, that the people I really need to please are the staff members who book me; I hope they take into account the audience reaction, but you never know.

Continuing the hijack with an anecdote: I played at a nursing home about a week ago, and did a "patriotic songs" medley of You're a Grand Old Flag/Yankee Doodle Dandy/God Bless America (on the banjo, he said apologetically). One resident kept frowning and shaking her head through the last song; when I finished, I asked her if anything was wrong. "Too fast," she said, and proceeded to sing the first verse and chorus of God Bless America at a slow tempo, and beautifully. "That's the way I learned it," she finished, and the rest of the audience and I gave her a big round of applause.

I wrote a short article for a Playing For Senior Audiences workshop I gave, with gerontological health specialist Jan Maier, at the New England Folk Festival a couple years ago. Dave Ruch out of Buffalo posted it on his website, so if anyone's interested, you can read it, with comments, here.

Now ends the hijack...

[MikeZito]

When you boil it down its basic core - criticism, (whether bad or good), is nothing more than one person's personal opinion. Accept the criticism of those you respect, ignore the rest and move on to the best of your ability.

[Hypoxia]

Play for your family. Disinvite critics for dinner. You may train them quickly.

[BrianWilliam]

Time to stop wearing flip flops

You guys are lucky! The critics I seem to get are the really drunk ones who hoot and holler and then vomit on your shoes. What number is that?

[Martin Ohrt]

I did not encounter many different types of critics yet. Once you can consider yourself an intermediate amateur, the flaws you notice in your playing go unnoticed by most of your listeners. At least that's the experience I made so far...
Of course, if there are musicians in the audience, they'll notice, especially when they play the same kind of music. But I experienced most musicians to be very friendly and thus to belong to the group of "constructive critics" Mark mentions.

[Humminghawk]

You guys are lucky! The critics I seem to get are the really drunk ones who hoot and holler and then vomit on your shoes. What number is that?

Same here! Must be a Colorado thing.

[Mark Wilson]

What others think doesn't change what I know. I'm my fiercest critic. And it's not easy getting better than you were yesterday. Didn't expect it would be easy but I didn't expect it was gonna be this hard.

Or this much fun

[Caleb]

Critics kind, never mind!
Critics flatter, no matter!
Critics blame, all the same!
Do your best, ___ the rest!
-Arthur Conan Doyle

[Astro]

There is only one critic. Yourself.

All those other people are only getting to you because we can't help allowing them to influence our self critic...

The way I try to defeat my self doubt is to quit trying to play for the gratitude of others and just do it to make myself happy.

Sometimes that works, other times its a struggle. Most of us need some external appreciation/gratification from time to time. If all we need is our own approval then it seems narcissistic somehow. Others approval provides some degree of verification of our time and effort.

I rarely get negative feedback. I rarely get positive feedback. 99.99% of the time when I put myself out there, I get NO feedback. That indifference gets tough to handle and I wonder why do it at all because I realize that in the main stream opinion, I must not be very "good". If I was, someone would throw some praise occasionally. But then I try to remind myself that at least it makes me happy. Or it gives me an outlet to express something. Sometimes thats enough. Sometimes it falls short. I quit at least 2 or 3 times a week. Sometimes I go awhile without playing. But so far I go back because...somewhere it makes me a little happier -most of the time.

[Mandoplumb]

Just say “thank you for coming” and leave it at that. I have listened to bands and thought they did a great job and enjoyed the performance...when I said so all they did was put themselves down, learn how to take a compliment and say thank you. There was a thread last year on here by Aaron Weinstein with a link questioning the sincerity of a standing ovation...as a fan I felt insulted.Being polite never goes out of style.

Years ago I playedvin a gospel bluegrass band. The leader would start each performance basically saying " we can't play very good we can't sing very good we just came to praise the Lord" one night a man came up to him after to say he enjoyed the program and say just a word of advice, don't say you can't play or sing very good, they will find that out soon enough.

[Charlie Bernstein]

Critics don't have to be talented at what they review. In fact, they usually aren't. But they (a) have immersed themselves in what they review enough to be considered experts, (b) have well thought-out opinions based on their experience, and (c) are able to express their opinions clearly and engagingly. Criticism is an art form, itself.

The people bugging you aren't critics. They're audience. And as an audience member, I just want to be entertained. So as a player, I have only one goal: to be entertaining. When I make 'em laugh, cry, dance, or just listen, mission accomplished. When I don't, back to the drawing board.

[Louise NM]

Years ago I playedvin a gospel bluegrass band. The leader would start each performance basically saying " we can't play very good we can't sing very good we just came to praise the Lord" one night a man came up to him after to say he enjoyed the program and say just a word of advice, don't say you can't play or sing very good, they will find that out soon enough.

That man was right. The self-deprecation, false modesty, whatever it is, doesn't work for me. If you don't have some respect for what you are doing, you can't expect the audience to, either. Nothing wrong with saying that you are an amateur, or still learning your instrument, or a new band. That's all fine, and everybody has been there. But to say flat out that you don't do well what people have come to see you do, makes fools of your audience for bothering to come. People almost always know if they will be seeing Chris Thile or Joe Blow. Don't hold Mr. Blow to the same standard you would hold Thile, and Blow has no need to apologize for not being Mr. Thile.

[OldSausage]

I give critics one star.

[Ivan Kelsall]

In the realm of Classical music / Opera,there are critics who don't play any instrument or sing either - BUT !!. They know & understand ''what it takes, & what a good musician / singer should sound like''. They learn this from experience & by watching & listening to 'the best''. My point ? - the critics who can't play / sing,are basing their opinion of 'your' talent,by comparing you to what they've heard. If they're comparing you to Bill Monroe / Adam Steffey etc.,they can't help but be critical ( i hope that they never hear me !). Basically - that's all they can do,as they've no other experience.

The guys who can play ok,are simply forgetting where they were at one point,which is a tad unreasonable - but folk do forget these things.

The folk who point out your good points - for the most part,they just enjoy watching & listening to ''whatever''. They stand in judgement over nobody & as you say,many other accomplished folks will do the same. Mostly they're the ones who DO remember what it was like when they were learning.

IMHO - Do what you're doing,enjoy it,& for the most part,unless it's helpful,constructive criticism - forget it. I kicked off playing mandolin when i was 60 - i'm now 73 & don't give a toot what others think = nobody on the planet can criticise me the way i do !!!,
Ivan

[William Smith]

Critics, that's funny! It seems there are critics for and about everything-what a joke IMHO!! Its nice to get compliments on your playing and nice to hear what sounded off I think. Most people forget that most of these younger players like Chris were professionally taught by someone/exceptional players like John Moore, or their parents like the Tuttle kids, then went to a music school of some sort. Kids nowadays have a lot better opportunity to be better players with online,personal,higher degree of education.
All any of us mortal players can do is just have fun with it, most of us didn't have the support of our family spending $ on lessons, hauling us around to grass fest after festival!
I forgot to mention also well that's their job to play music so you do something long enough your bound to be pretty good! Most of us have/had life get in the way be it jobs, kids, health problems etc..

[Doc Ivory]

I have an "acquaintance" who fancies himself a musician and will offer critiques regardless of being asked or not.
Yet, if one were to offer advice, he kinda gets riled.

Takes all kinds in this world.