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Thread: Wide Nut

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    I'm not a math expert (English was my goodest subject) and all these numbers are confusing. How 'bout just making a decision based on what easiest to play (or is that simplifying it too much)?
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  3. #27

    Default Re: Wide Nut

    Nut width and fret height are some of the things that make a difference to me and are hard to shop for because those specs aren't easily available, and you can't sort by them on a website so very tedious.

    Someone suggest some under $2k wide-nut, tall-fret (.45+) F-hole (no scroll is ok) mandos for me? :-)
    Preferably that can be had at Gryphon or the mandolinstore. Pickup is preferred, but not hard to add later.
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  4. #28
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    Quote Originally Posted by DHopkins View Post
    If that's the case, you might switch to a stand-up bass.
    You'd think, but I've seen these arachnodactyls(?) play mandolin with no problems. I've also seen bass players with the smallest hands/fingers. No whinging.

  5. #29
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    kurth83, Searching on the web is very tedious. Agreed, but at least we can. Looks like you've managed to build a good sized stable of mandos all the same.

  6. #30
    Fatally Flawed Bill Kammerzell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    Quote Originally Posted by DHopkins View Post
    I'm not a math expert (English was my goodest subject) and all these numbers are confusing. How 'bout just making a decision based on what easiest to play (or is that simplifying it too much)?
    Yup. Most comfortable with a 1 3/16" nut, but I still won't be selling the Gibson (1 1/16) anytime soon. At 67% of new MSRP for a floor model it was too good to pass up.
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  7. #31
    Gummy Bears and Scotch BrianWilliam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    You are totally right and wrong!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Hildreth View Post
    Wide Nut is subjective.

    I see this in quite a few ads on the Cafe and also in maker's/seller's blather.

    1 3/16ths is a barely acceptable norm for modern human hands in my experienced opinion.

    Wide ( acceptable/ playable) is anything over that.

    When I read "wide nut" in an ad for a mandolin, I interpret that as being wider than 1 3/16ths..
    1 3/16ths being the norm with some makers.

    Why advertise "wide nut" when it is not by many players definition..
    and contrarily, when the nut width is less than 1 3/16ths.. why aren't the sellers/makers/dealers stating "narrow nut" as in the Eastman line and many others?

  8. #32
    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    While we're discussing neck shape, hand and finger size, etc., we shouldn't ignore the fact that some of the more useful techniques of mandolin playing require close-spaced string courses, more akin to fiddle technique.

    This is what guitar players often miss, when they first encounter mandolins and think the standard nuts are too narrow.

    For example, it's incredibly useful to use my index fingertip to hold down all four strings of the G and D courses for a 2200 "modal A" chord (or dyad), leaving my other fingers free for fretting other notes. Move that shape over one set of strings and it's a "modal E." There are a few other shapes that work this way, using a single fingertip. It only works effortlessly (except for the callus required) when the string pairs are close enough together. That's a function of string spacing at the nut, not the nut width itself, but there is a correlation on most mandolins.

    I'm 6'2" tall with proportionate hands and fingers, and I don't find this technique difficult on a more-or-less standard sized mandolin nut width. I do find it more difficult, although not impossible, with wider spacing of string courses like my octave mandolin. I just have to think ahead a bit more to "stick the landing" when playing a faster tune using that 22OO fingertip chord on the OM, whereas on mandolin it's effortless.

    Of course it's possible to play mandolin well without ever using this technique. It depends on the genres of music you're playing (not sure if Bill M. ever did this?). But I don't think I'd ever choose a mandolin with a "wide nut" because it would limit this techniques that I've come to depend on,

  9. #33

    Default Re: Wide Nut

    Quote Originally Posted by DHopkins View Post
    I'm not a math expert (English was my goodest subject) and all these numbers are confusing. How 'bout just making a decision based on what easiest to play (or is that simplifying it too much)?
    Agree with you completely, but I'll bet 75% don't have even one decently stocked store, much less one with two Collings F5s with different nut width. At least if you have narrowed your preference, you have half a chance at ordering online successfully.
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  10. #34
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    Ok, maybe I've got this math thing figured out after all. My main Breedlove has a 1 3/16" nut and I'm comfortable with it. It feels almost the same as my buddy's 1 6/32". Now, if you go shopping for a 1 1/8" nut, don't get the 1 1/4" nut because it's 8/64" larger. If you find one with a 1 11/16" width, put it back because that's a Martin D-28.

    See, I told you I had it figured out.

    Tomorrow, our cipherin' lesson will be division so study up.

    David Hopkins

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    Breedlove Legacy FF mandolin; Breedlove Quartz FF mandolin
    Gibson F-4 mandolin (1916); Blevins f-style Octave mandolin, 2018
    McCormick Oval Sound Hole "Reinhardt" Mandolin
    McCormick Solid Body F-Style Electric Mandolin; Slingerland Songster Guitar (c. 1939)

    The older I get, the less tolerant I am of political correctness, incompetence and stupidity.

  11. #35
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    "You have no evidence for that and it doesn't follow from the information in the (let's be generous and call it an) article. "

    Ok, I'll buy your unsubstantiated retort..

    Human hands have remained the same size in spite of a significant increase in body height and weight since 1900.

    ie .. the human body has increased in size while the hands have remained the same.


    Yeah, that'll sell.

  12. #36
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    "If you find one with a 1 11/16" width, put it back because that's a Martin D-28."

    Post 1939 perhaps.

    Pre 1939 the standard nut width on a Martin guitar was 1 3/4" as was my 00-17. .

  13. #37
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    "You are totally right and wrong!"

    As I am old and dimmer than a 5 watt bulb, please expound.

  14. #38
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    I recall an incident in an upscale stringed instrument store in the SF Cal area about 30 years ago.

    I was a frequent customer.

    On this visit they showed me a new Martin ( I have owned 14 of them)

    I played it and said.. ok but the nut width is too narrow.

    Sales person..
    What if I take $300 off the price, is the nut width wide enough ?

    I related this to the owner ( of this famed store)

    This used car hustler is no longer there.

  15. #39
    Registered User Eric Platt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    Some folks get used to a certain width. My 1910 A is 1 1/8", the one my mentor owns, which is a couple years newer, is probably 1 1/4". Very wide. He has a terrible time trying to play my Gibson. Although I have no problem using his if needed.

    As to nut width, I was once told, when handling an original Roy Smeck Radio Grande, that if I couldn't handle the 2 1/8" nut width, that I should maybe just give up trying to play guitar.
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  16. #40

    Default Re: Wide Nut

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Hildreth View Post
    "You have no evidence for that and it doesn't follow from the information in the (let's be generous and call it an) article. "

    Ok, I'll buy your unsubstantiated retort..

    Human hands have remained the same size in spite of a significant increase in body height and weight since 1900.

    ie .. the human body has increased in size while the hands have remained the same.


    Yeah, that'll sell.
    Well, my human body has increased substantially in weight since I was 21, but my hands aren't any bigger. Height does affect hand length, but since your hand length is less than 1/9th of your height, for every inch in height you gain, your hands get less than a ninth of an inch longer (on average). Americans have gained an increased average height of 3 inches over the last century, so about, what, a third of an inch on your total hand length at most. I'm 6 foot 4 and I have no trouble playing a 1 and 1/8 inch neck mandolin.
    Last edited by OldSausage; Jul-24-2018 at 9:15am.

  17. #41

    Default Re: Wide Nut

    Click image for larger version. 

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    https://twitter.com/simpsons_tweets/...98151239266304

    Mike Marshall could probably easily palm a basketball, and he plays one of those The Loars, don't he? But, you know, from before they made 'em with real chunky necks? And then there is this guy: https://www.thestrad.com/violinist-i...s/6114.article

    But while I don't find the 'my hands are too big' argument entirely persuasive, I constantly use my smaller than average hands as an excuse for my trouble playing well.

  18. #42

    Default Re: Wide Nut

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Hildreth View Post
    "The average man has grown by four inches in the last century due to improvements in diet and public health, say scientists. In 1900 a typical male was 5ft 6in tall, but by 2000 that had gone up to 5ft 10in. Over the same time women have grown by one-and-a-half inches, from just under 5ft 3in to just over 5ft 4in"

    Appendages have also grown proportionately.. ie hands and fingers.
    My friends have had a vintage clothing store for 40+ years and have noticed that vintage clothes don't fit today's kids! That is, kids today are a lot bigger than 100 years ago. They blame pre-natal vitamins, believe it or not. Not sure how that has affected the vintage glove market!

  19. #43
    Gummy Bears and Scotch BrianWilliam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    If you want to blame something, how about corn syrup.

  20. #44
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    This thread started with "Wide nut is subjective." That said, that's all that had to be said.

  21. #45
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    Correctamundo.

    The point is that some folks advertise "wide nut" when it is utter bs based on the fact that most mandolin nuts are under-nutted by my standards and the standard of many others.

    Rather than state "wide nut" why not just post a number.

    Thank you Mr. Obvious

    Also since some folks state "wide nut" .. considering Eastman and other mandolins suffer from NNS ( narrow nut syndrome) with weenie 1 1/16th nuts, why are the sellers not advertising/stating.. the "desirable narrow nut" ?

    Just musing.

  22. #46
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    Maybe the airlines should advertise "Now offering narrow seats!" (Though it's the legroom that bothers me, and I'm under six feet.)

    What I've see advertised as a jumbo guitar.....

  23. #47
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    When I bought my Collings wide nut, I thought it was the right thing, but I could never play a comfortable G chop on it.(I have long fingers too) Now that I have a narrower neck C#, I feel more comfortable playing overall. It’s weird.
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  24. #48
    Registered User sblock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    Chaconne a son gout! (obscure French pun )

  25. #49
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    I lean toward 1-1/8" nut width and moderate thickness of neck. The only mandolin I have kept with a 1-1/4" nut width is my RM-1 and it does take me a bit of time to adjust to it. My 23 Gibson snakehead is actually narrower than 1-1/8" but everything else is in that general range.

    I have also played some mandolins with thin (in depth) necks and those I find hard to get used to.
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