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Thread: Wide Nut

  1. #1
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    Default Wide Nut

    Wide Nut is subjective.

    I see this in quite a few ads on the Cafe and also in maker's/seller's blather.

    1 3/16ths is a barely acceptable norm for modern human hands in my experienced opinion.

    Wide ( acceptable/ playable) is anything over that.

    When I read "wide nut" in an ad for a mandolin, I interpret that as being wider than 1 3/16ths..
    1 3/16ths being the norm with some makers.

    Why advertise "wide nut" when it is not by many players definition..
    and contrarily, when the nut width is less than 1 3/16ths.. why aren't the sellers/makers/dealers stating "narrow nut" as in the Eastman line and many others?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    This has been discussed many times. And, if I remember correctly, there is even a thread admonishing people for not listing the nut size in the classifieds. Apparently someone cares.
    David Hopkins

    2001 Gibson F-5L mandolin
    Breedlove Legacy FF mandolin; Breedlove Quartz FF mandolin
    Gibson F-4 mandolin (1916); Blevins f-style Octave mandolin, 2018
    McCormick Oval Sound Hole "Reinhardt" Mandolin
    McCormick Solid Body F-Style Electric Mandolin; Slingerland Songster Guitar (c. 1939)

    The older I get, the less tolerant I am of political correctness, incompetence and stupidity.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    Well, a certain well known instrument maker made thousands of mandolins with nuts that were 1 1/8" or narrower and new players thought that it was normal and got used to it. Then other companies started making copies of those mandolins, and a whole generation never played anything else. Narrow boards became the industry standard, like it or not.

    Personally, I find the narrower boards uncomfortable, and prefer 1 3/16" or greater. But many people prefer 1 1/8" or less.

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  5. #4
    Fatally Flawed Bill Kammerzell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    1 3/16" to most mandolin players I know is considered a "wide nut." Most builders of mandolins describe a mandolin with a 1 3/16 nut as a "wide nut." Seeing that most mandolin nuts are 1 1/8" or less (1 3/32 or 1 1/16), 1 3/16 certainly qualifies and is pretty much accepted as a wide nut. It's always a good piece of information to know. I like 'em though I also own a 1 1/16 and a 1 1/8.
    Do many builders make a mandolin with a wider nut than 1 3/16" as a matter of course?
    Ray Dearstone #009 D1A (1999)
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  6. #5
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    1 3/16" was Gibson's standard until the F-5 came out. Most of the old F-5's were 1 3/32", more or less. A lot of modern era Gibsons were even a bit narrower than that, and those mandolins were copied. That's how industry standards change.

    The same thing happened when Martin narrowed their necks in the 1930's, finally settling on 1 11/16".

    There is a trend in the flat top guitar world back towards wider fingerboards-- 1 3/4" or more at the nut.

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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    "Modern human hands"? Do mine fit the definition?


    Jeff, what's the width on your mando(s)?

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  9. #7

    Default Re: Wide Nut

    I am enjoying this luxuriously appointed thread.

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  11. #8
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    I consider 1 and 1/8 the standard, and while that’s the minimum I would consider comfortable, I can adapt to my Eastman 315, which is narrower. My RM-1, which is 1 and 1/4 inches wide takes a couple of minutes to adjust to, but, if I ever order a custom, that’s what I’ll request...

    I’m grateful for the options available to me that may not have been there 40+ years ago!
    Chuck

  12. #9
    Fatally Flawed Bill Kammerzell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyV View Post
    "Modern human hands"? Do mine fit the definition?

    I just can't help but to keep looking at mine and pondering?
    Ray Dearstone #009 D1A (1999)
    Skip Kelley #063 Offset Two Point (2017)
    Arches #9 A Style (2005)
    Bourgeois M5A (2022)
    Hohner and Seydel Harmonicas (various keys)

    "Heck, Jimmy Martin don't even believe in Santy Claus!"

  13. #10
    Fatally Flawed Bill Kammerzell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    Quote Originally Posted by CES View Post
    I consider 1 and 1/8 the standard, and while that’s the minimum I would consider comfortable, I can adapt to my Eastman 315, which is narrower. My RM-1, which is 1 and 1/4 inches wide takes a couple of minutes to adjust to, but, if I ever order a custom, that’s what I’ll request...

    I’m grateful for the options available to me that may not have been there 40+ years ago!
    So you like the 1 1/4"?
    Ray Dearstone #009 D1A (1999)
    Skip Kelley #063 Offset Two Point (2017)
    Arches #9 A Style (2005)
    Bourgeois M5A (2022)
    Hohner and Seydel Harmonicas (various keys)

    "Heck, Jimmy Martin don't even believe in Santy Claus!"

  14. #11
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    My Gibson is 1 1/4", I don't have a problem with it, but most every thing else i have is 1 1/8" or 1 3/32". I find the depth of the neck more of a problem than the width of the nut. 1 1/8" is the standard from all I have gathered.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  15. #12
    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    Consider the volume of neck in your hand. Don't just consider the one-dimensional number, "Nut width."

    Gibson has mandolins at 1.1 inch; 1-1/8 inch; 1-3/16 inch; and 1-1/4 inch. If we just think of 1.1 inch as the narrowest, we then have increasing volume of the neck (i.e., the feel in hand) that is 5% larger, 11-1/2% larger and another 11% larger as you go up in nut width. That seemingly trivial change in the one-dimension makes a two-digit difference in the percentage of material in your hand.

    So, I see/feel the difference!

    f-d
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    '20 A3, '30 L-1, '97 914, 2012 Cohen A5, 2012 Muth A5, '14 OM28A

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  17. #13

    Default Re: Wide Nut

    There is also spacing within and between courses to consider. I tend to like a wider nut myself, but my bowlback does have a nut width of slightly less than an inch (it's essentially identical to a violin).

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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    My mandolin(s) are 32mm. I make my cavaquinhos with 32 mm.

    My first experience with this width was back in 1990 when I order 2 Seiffert instruments from Germany. Seiffert suggest 32 MM.
    It was a revelation as I had been playing instruments with 1 1/8th and 1 3/16ths.

    I had also ordered 2 Givens about the same time and asked that the nut width be "wide".. and suggested 1 3/16ths. . The A-3 and the A-6 both came with 1 1/8th, his usual being 1 1/16th. The instruments were great sounding but unplayable..offed them.

  19. #15
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    "This has been discussed many times. And, if I remember correctly, there is even a thread admonishing people for not listing the nut size in the classifieds. Apparently someone cares. "

    And ,yet, folks continue to leave out nut and other critical details such as price : ).

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  21. #16
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    "I just can't help but to keep looking at mine and pondering? "

    I rarely look at mine.. we have been together a long time, I know what I have.


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...rn-man-grown-4...

    "The average man has grown by four inches in the last century due to improvements in diet and public health, say scientists. In 1900 a typical male was 5ft 6in tall, but by 2000 that had gone up to 5ft 10in. Over the same time women have grown by one-and-a-half inches, from just under 5ft 3in to just over 5ft 4in"

    Appendages have also grown proportionately.. ie hands and fingers.

  22. #17
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    [QUOTE=Jeff Hildreth;1667084]
    I rarely look at mine.. we have been together a long time, I know what I have. "What do you see when you turn out the light?"

  23. #18
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    The number of times I've said or heard "How can he do that with those pork sausage fingers?" Or envied the guy with spider-like hand with spindly fingers and a 12" reach.

  24. #19
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    If ya can palm a basketball,,,ya probably need a wider nut!!!
    MITCH

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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    Quote Originally Posted by trainmaster View Post
    If ya can palm a basketball,,,ya probably need a wider nut!!!
    If that's the case, you might switch to a stand-up bass.
    David Hopkins

    2001 Gibson F-5L mandolin
    Breedlove Legacy FF mandolin; Breedlove Quartz FF mandolin
    Gibson F-4 mandolin (1916); Blevins f-style Octave mandolin, 2018
    McCormick Oval Sound Hole "Reinhardt" Mandolin
    McCormick Solid Body F-Style Electric Mandolin; Slingerland Songster Guitar (c. 1939)

    The older I get, the less tolerant I am of political correctness, incompetence and stupidity.

  26. #21

    Default Re: Wide Nut

    I know I must have played all kinds of nut sizes on my store cruisings to Gryphon and other stores, but I pay no attention to that or fretboard radius. A flat fretboard is pretty obvious, but I've never once noticed the nut size. A mandolin either feels good or not, which is all that matters to me. Now the not might be a particular size, but I don't want to be clouded by a pre judgement.

    I might never have tried my favorite acoustic guitar, much less bought it online, had I known it's 1 5/8 nut width beforehand. That Epiphone Texan will be my main guitar forever. I also have and enjoy 1 3/4 widths too. Neck shape is part of the package needed to be taken as a whole while in your hands.
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  27. #22
    Fatally Flawed Bill Kammerzell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    [QUOTE=Jeff Hildreth;1667084]"I just can't help but to keep looking at mine and pondering? "

    I rarely look at mine.. we have been together a long time, I know what I have.


    I was talking about my hands.
    Ray Dearstone #009 D1A (1999)
    Skip Kelley #063 Offset Two Point (2017)
    Arches #9 A Style (2005)
    Bourgeois M5A (2022)
    Hohner and Seydel Harmonicas (various keys)

    "Heck, Jimmy Martin don't even believe in Santy Claus!"

  28. #23

    Default Re: Wide Nut

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Hildreth View Post
    Appendages have also grown proportionately.. ie hands and fingers.
    You have no evidence for that and it doesn't follow from the information in the (let's be generous and call it an) article.

  29. #24
    Registered User sblock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    In my experience, folks coming to mandolin from the violin side do tend to have a slight preference for narrower necks. Folks coming from the guitar side to mandolin, on the other hand, tend to have a slight preference for wider necks. Folks who start with mandolin don't seem to have many problems either way. The vast majority of mandolinists, in my experience, can easily and rapidly adjust to small nut width differences. And let's face it, the difference between 1-1/8" and 1-3/32" is just 1/16" -- that is darned SMALL, by almost any standard. Only a minority of musicians (like the princess and the pea) cannot seem to manage this adjustment, and are prone to complain ad nauseum: some of them have been very outspoken here in the MS.

    As others have repeatedly pointed out in response to these persistent complaints, unless you also factor in equally -- or more! -- important ergonomic considerations, including the actual inter-string and inter-course spacing at the nut, the neck profile (C- or V-; shallow or deep), the degree of spread in fingerboard width as you ascend the neck, the fretwire size, and so on, then the value of the nominal nut width, considered in isolation, means almost nothing.

    Many factors affect personal comfort in playing. Nut width is just not a biggie. But to each, his/her own, I say!

  30. #25
    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wide Nut

    repeating myself, but it takes three attempts, so here's attempt Number 2:

    The linear differences between 1-1/16th, 1-1/8, 1-3/16 and 1-1/4 represent jumps of (about) 6%, 12% and 18% on nut width (compared to the 1-1/16th). Folks argue this is trivial.

    The area differences between the same nut widths represent jumps of (about) 12%, 25% and 38%, respectively. Sure, they all carve the necks differently, but when approximated as a semi-circle (i.e., (1/8)pi*D^2), you get the idea.

    It's not trivial according to the numbers and in light of all the other obsessions that seem like <2% factors (e.g., tonerite), eh?

    f-d
    ˇpapá gordo ain’t no madre flaca!

    '20 A3, '30 L-1, '97 914, 2012 Cohen A5, 2012 Muth A5, '14 OM28A

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