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Thread: Jumping from OM to Cittern?

  1. #1
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    Default Jumping from OM to Cittern?

    Hey there everyone,

    So a brief history lesson: I've been playing mandolin for about 13 years now. About 9 years ago I made the switch to OM, sold my standard mando and never looked back. Not long after getting my first OM (a trinity college) I found a copy of Gerald Trimble's "First Flight" on LP at a record swap and became very intrigued. Over the years I upgraded my OM to a delightful Moon that i love playing on but have always had it in the back of my mind to potentially make the jump to playing cittern.

    As far as playing style goes, I most often use my OM for playing lead and rhythm Celtic tunes, both with a plectrum and fingerstyle, as well as neo-folk and some russian and greek stuff. I also typically tune GDAE but also play around a fair amount with GDGD and have decently large hands (is that enough info for ya?).

    The prospect of having an extra bass or treble course and the plethora of tuning options make a cittern seem very appealing. I also have a tendency to play mostly by myself and the possibility of having more full rhythm and lead options sounds quite nice as well.

    However, where i live in WA there are no places at all available to go and actually play on a cittern. So realistically it seems as if i wont actually have a chance to figure out if it's something I would like to pursue unless i take the plunge and just buy one over the internet. This is made even more difficult because unlike mandolin and OM, an entry level cittern is looking at costing $1000+ USD and as most of us know, entry level models of instruments can just as easily steer you away as draw you in just based on craftsmanship and set up, let alone actual tone.

    So that's my conundrum! Here's what im wondering:

    1. I would like to hear from folks who have actually acquired citterns and what their experience with them has been (you know, is it awesome? Are they too bulky? Does the tone totally rule? Scale too long for quick melodies? Chords too much of a pain in the booty? that kind of stuff...)

    2. What luthiers would folks reccomend for purchasing a cittern? From what research I've been able to do it seems like I would most likely be looking for a flat top with a scale length of roughly 20"-24" in the $1-2k range.

    Any information folks have would be greatly appreciated and my apologies if this thread already exists and i just haven't been able to find it! Thanks - Dylan

  2. #2

    Default Re: Jumping from OM to Cittern?

    I started with a 20 inch octave, moved to a 23.5 cittern, then to a 22 guitar bodied octave and that's where I'm staying.

    The cittern sounded great. Looked great. Had mojo.

    I found the cittern neck chunky and more difficult to navigate. The 23.5 inch scale was difficult to play melody on fast jigs and reels. 22 seems to be the sweet spot for me. 20 is easier but 22 sounds better and is doable. The benefit of having extra courses and not throwing your hand around was less than the disadvantage of a thicker neck/fretboard. My hand tired more quickly on the cittern. At 23.5 I was unable to get a satisfying low D for a DGDAD tuning. At 25 I hear you can. A low D would have been cool but at 25 I would probably be playing mostly backing.

    I wish the gbom had more mojo. It looks like a wee parlor guitar. Beautifully made but a wee parlor guitar nonetheless. But it has the sound and playability I prefer so I'm sticking there!
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  3. #3
    Registered User Marcus CA's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jumping from OM to Cittern?

    Quote Originally Posted by einsamkristall View Post

    1. I would like to hear from folks who have actually acquired citterns and what their experience with them has been (you know, is it awesome? Are they too bulky? Does the tone totally rule? Scale too long for quick melodies? Chords too much of a pain in the booty? that kind of stuff...)

    2. What luthiers would folks recommend for purchasing a cittern? From what research I've been able to do it seems like I would most likely be looking for a flat top with a scale length of roughly 20"-24" in the $1-2k range.
    Yes, it is totally awesome! Yes, they are bulky. Yes, the tone totally rules! No, the scale isn’t too long for quick melodies if the tune doesn’t use the 6th fret much or at all. Yes, five-string chords can be a pain in the booty, but I often use just 3 or 4 strings at a time for chords. However, those 5-string chords are stunning!

    For cittern builders, I really like Richard Beard and Lawrence Nyberg. However, I don’t know if you’re going to find any luthier who builds citterns in that price range. PacRim companies might, though. Flat top works great for citterns, but you probably aren’t going to find a luthier who will build you one for under $2500. That’s just a hunch, though. For scale length, mine is 24-3/4 inches, which I really like because I keep the low string tuned to C.

    Happy hunting!
    still trying to turn dreams into memories

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    Registered User Mike Rodbell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jumping from OM to Cittern?

    Somewhat higher price point... you might find the Dammann Mandocello interesting. 5 courses cello + OM.

    Their info is at:

    https://www.mandocello.org/

    I purchased one a few months back and am loving it!

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    Default Re: Jumping from OM to Cittern?

    oops -- deleted -- posted a reply to the wrong thread. sorry.
    New to mando? Click this link -->Newbies to join us at the Newbies Social Group.

    Just send an email to rob.meldrum@gmail.com with "mandolin setup" in the subject line and he will email you a copy of his ebook for free (free to all mandolincafe members).

    My website and blog: honketyhank.com

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    Default Re: Jumping from OM to Cittern?

    I was also intrigued by the Gerald Trimble record. I couldn't afford to buy a cittern, so I built one. 24 inch scale. Flat top. Probably not as good as a carved top but I don't have the expertise. Sounds good.

  7. #7
    Tired & Cranky Monte Barnett's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jumping from OM to Cittern?

    Dylan,

    Dusty Strings has a nice-looking 5-course Moon cittern for $950. Gotta admit; it's tempting, but I have my eye on a mandola.

    Monte

  8. #8
    My Florida is scooped pheffernan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jumping from OM to Cittern?

    Quote Originally Posted by MB-Octo View Post
    Dusty Strings has a nice-looking 5-course Moon cittern for $950. Gotta admit; it's tempting, but I have my eye on a mandola.
    The OP is in Olympia. The Moon cittern is in Seattle, a short 60 miles away. Serendipitous.
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  9. #9
    Registered User Marcus CA's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jumping from OM to Cittern?

    Quote Originally Posted by pheffernan View Post
    The OP is in Olympia. The Moon cittern is in Seattle, a short 60 miles away. Serendipitous.
    Absolutely serendipitous, but except for a few hours a day during business hours, it's not so short a 60 miles, given the traffic there. Still, I agree that it would be time very well spent, since playing the Moon would answer Dylan's questions with total certainty.

    Make it a day trip, Dylan! If you haven't been to Dusty Strings before, it's a fantastic store in a really interesting neighborhood (the Fremont district). You can have a fun time just walking around the commercial and residential districts, with lots of places for great coffee and food. I'm sure that, if you decided to buy the cittern, DS would hold it for you while you roamed around.
    still trying to turn dreams into memories

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Jumping from OM to Cittern?

    Hey there!

    So i ended up snagging that Moon from Dustry Strings. Ive been going in there periodically for about the last 15 years or so and would always love to play on their expensive mandolas and OM's but had never seen a cittern in there. I didnt even realize you could browse their current stock online or i would have been checking that frequently!

    Anyways I made the trek to Seattle and bought it! So far its been really awesome. I wanna say it has a 23.5" scale and so far ive had no problems with playing all my regular fast reels and what not. Ive had a few issues with some 4+ note chords that involve a bit more stretching but its causing me to have to break away from my more regular first position chords which i definitely think will be a good thing. I think for now my new cittern will be sufficient to keep by itself so I'll probably have my Moon OM up on the classifieds soon! Thanks to everyone for their input and especially to MB-Octo for making this bad boy known to me!

    Ive been experimenting with some different tunings but have been feeling the most comfortable with CGDAE and DGDAE. I also picked up the Doc Rossi cittern book which if i remember correctly uses GDADG, however since my string gages are pretty thick to try that tuning ive messed around with it just capo'd at the 12th fret, more like a 5 course mando with a big body at that point though. If anyone knows of any good cittern resources that could be of interest lemme know, im very excited to set off on this path and see where it leads me!

  11. #11

    Default Re: Jumping from OM to Cittern?

    Quote Originally Posted by einsamkristall View Post
    Hey there!

    So i ended up snagging that Moon from Dustry Strings. Ive been going in there periodically for about the last 15 years or so and would always love to play on their expensive mandolas and OM's but had never seen a cittern in there. I didnt even realize you could browse their current stock online or i would have been checking that frequently!

    Anyways I made the trek to Seattle and bought it! So far its been really awesome. I wanna say it has a 23.5" scale and so far ive had no problems with playing all my regular fast reels and what not. Ive had a few issues with some 4+ note chords that involve a bit more stretching but its causing me to have to break away from my more regular first position chords which i definitely think will be a good thing. I think for now my new cittern will be sufficient to keep by itself so I'll probably have my Moon OM up on the classifieds soon! Thanks to everyone for their input and especially to MB-Octo for making this bad boy known to me!

    Ive been experimenting with some different tunings but have been feeling the most comfortable with CGDAE and DGDAE. I also picked up the Doc Rossi cittern book which if i remember correctly uses GDADG, however since my string gages are pretty thick to try that tuning ive messed around with it just capo'd at the 12th fret, more like a 5 course mando with a big body at that point though. If anyone knows of any good cittern resources that could be of interest lemme know, im very excited to set off on this path and see where it leads me!
    ever moon instrument i ever tried was great. congrtulations.

  12. #12
    Registered User suturalis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jumping from OM to Cittern?

    Hey there,
    Coming from a guitar background and a lazy way of playing mainly in first position, I always though my OM needed an extra course! I modified my Hora OM in a brutal way by cutting off the neck at the body and bolting on a Takamine acoustic guitar neck. The fingerboard needed steaming off and repositioning to give me back my 23inch scale length. It works a treat. I do like the sound of the longer scale length instruments but don't have the finger stretch to play melody on these instruments without considerable stretching and pain. Also my Cittern is tuned DGADG and you can't reliably tuned that top G even with .008 strings at a scale length of 25inch. Overall I see this as a good compromise. I can still play chords at my local session when the fiddles start playing too fast! I just use the base of my pinky to mute the top G string (other than C or G chords).

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