Is there an effect if you reverse the treble and bass tone bars?

[Mark Marino]

I’d think that vibration transmission through the bridge would be somewhat distributed so wondering if you put the bass and treble tone bars on the top on the reverse sides, if there would be a noticeable affect. Kind of like just taking a right handed mandolin and reversing the strings to play left handed.

[sblock]

Well, people do more radical things than that with tone bars, with the result being only a modest change in tone. Like changing from a tone bar bracing scheme to an X-bracing scheme, for example! These schemes do sound a bit different, yes, but only modestly so. I therefore would not expect much of a change at all if you swapped the bass and treble tone bars. Of course, anything you do can affect the tone, but other design factors would seem to be more important in affecting the tone, including the top thickness graduations, the tonewood itself, the bridge, and so on.

[MikeEdgerton]

People change A style mandolins from right handed to left handed all the time. The tone bars are then flipped. I can almost guarantee you can't hear the difference.

[OneChordTrick]

Which begs the question, why are they different in the first place?

[Br1ck]

'Cause Loars sound good?

[fscotte]

Personally, I don't think it matters... at all. There are mando built with no braces at all, and they still sound like a mando. I've built with 3 braces, Northfield has a 5 tonebar system, which they claim it gives a different sound.

I think what matters is the overall stiffness of the top and how the weight is distributed. Those two things will affect the tone, as well as how the arch is shaped.

[John Kelly]

Fascinating how often this sort of thread comes up, and it would seem that the responses are generally that there is not a great (if any) change discernible in the tone of the instrument. I read the theory and the science behind it and look at the measurements that are taken and recorded, etc, but ultimately we are dealing with individual perception of tone as heard by our fallible human ear rather than by a very accurate scientific instrument. Remember too that the player rarely if ever hears his/her instrument from the same position as a listener in front of the instrument. How often have we had someone else pick up our instruments and play them to us and we think "That sounds great from here!"

One person's ideal sound is another's muddy or shrill or otherwise unwanted tone!

[Bernie Daniel]

....Remember too that the player rarely if ever hears his/her instrument from the same position as a listener in front of the instrument. How often have we had someone else pick up our instruments and play them to us and we think "That sounds great from here!" One person's ideal sound is another's muddy or shrill or otherwise unwanted tone!

So true! I recently acquired a vintage Gibson F-model that I worked over the fret board -- radiused and re-fretted with tall frets.

Then I was starting to think I had messed it up because it sounded way too bright to me. Took it to a friend's house and heard it "from the other side" -- the mandolin is monster with very strong bass tone to it.

Second point. I keep saying all the talk about the glue, the species of spruce, or back woods, or the finish making consistent differences in the sound of a mandolin are just a series of "mandolin fairy tales" and none of these differences could be detected in a true blind testing where the sense of sight was removed from the equation.

I expect reversing the tone bars fits right in with that idea -- you could not tell in a bind test.

[Mark Marino]

Thanks everyone. To ‘fess up on why I’m asking, in case you can t guess... I’m doing my 5th mandolin build (A model) and finished carefully graduating the top, got out the Siminoff print to Lay out the tone bars, fitted and glued them in. Then realized I grabbed a drawing that was a view from the outside, so the tone bars are opposite of where they should be. I could remove them and start over but risk damaging the top in the process.

[MikeEdgerton]

If it ends up sounding great you can credit the tone bar reversal. If it ends up sounding awful you can blame the tone bar reversal. Either way I think you'll be fine. You could also make it a lefty and make some left handed picker really happy.

[Jim Hilburn]

I have no answer to the question, but I've heard it said that there is no treble or bass side to an instument. However Loar (or whoever) thought there was. Martin thought there was when they designed the tone bars (as opposed to the X braces) on the Dreadnaught.

[OldSausage]

I will say this: I don't see any reason why there would* be.

*I mean wouldn't.

[John Kelly]

I will say this: I don't see any reason why there would* be.

*I mean wouldn't.

Ah! You Trumped us all there, David!

[Chris Pritchett]

Very good!

[hank]

Mark if you compare the tonebar location of both of the new Northfield and Atipus to typical Loar copies you’ll find the more longitudinal(parallel with strings) and the more angled bar on the opposite sides. I’m building a Claro Walnut and Carpathian Spruce with similar bar placement and 360 deflection recurve modification. I’m more concerned with the graduations than the tone bar location. Enhanced bass creation with the whole plate moving like a diaphragm in inconjuction with the typical plate vibrations is the trickiest part that could end in no bass or a collapsed top.

[DHopkins]

It all depends on how long you leave the Tone-Rite on.

[j. condino]

The only way it will sound any different to people is if you tell them you switched the tonebars.

In the early days, Breedlove built approx. 250 mandolins that were later found out to be completely missing the tonebars. The bean counters gave the builder an ultimatum: three mandolins per day or you are fired. No tonebars was one of his time saving modifications. Kim and I found out about seven years later when we were replacing a broken tailpiece and were looking inside the endpin hole.....None of them were recalled and as far as I know, the majority are still out in the trenches.

[DHopkins]

I suspect the variation in sound from the rearranging, switching and/or elimination of the sound bars is the same as adding or removing a pick guard or switching to a cloth strap from a leather one. If you want it to sound different it will and vice versa.