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Thread: I need help identifying a bowl back mandolin

  1. #1

    Default I need help identifying a bowl back mandolin

    I am hoping someone can help me identify the manufacturer and age
    of the mandolin I have. My father acquired it around 1960 in lieu
    of payment on a debt owed to him. I have spent many hours researching
    and cannot find any that are identical to it. I am attaching pictures
    that I have taken that may be helpful in identifying this instrument.

    Features that I have noticed are:
    30 ribs across the bowl back plate
    bound finger board and sound hole
    black cloth lined interior
    tortoishell under
    inward-facing scrolls ornate the metal plate on the back of the peghead
    appears to have ivory over ebony on the saddle
    inlay fret markers at 5, 7, 10, 12, and 17
    The number 658 ink stamped on neck block end (faint but readable)
    Inside label depicts a mandolin with a C and A overlay - no date

    Thank you,
    Kathy
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  2. #2
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: I need help identifying a bowl back mandolin

    Ideal was a brand name owned by August Carlstadt & Co. The mandolin was probably built by one of the large builders in the Chicago area for the trade. Carlstadt most likely just labeled it. It was built sometime around 1900.

    It's missing the tailpiece cover and looks like it's in pretty good shape. Unfortunately they don't bring a huge sum when sold.

    One of our resident bowl backed mandolin experts will hopefully have a catalog page.
    Last edited by MikeEdgerton; Jul-09-2018 at 9:57pm.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
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  4. #3
    mando-evangelist August Watters's Avatar
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    Default Re: I need help identifying a bowl back mandolin

    Nice mandolin. Unfortunately, looks like the neck has failed.
    Exploring Classical Mandolin (Berklee Press, 2015)
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  6. #4

    Default Re: I need help identifying a bowl back mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by August Watters View Post
    Nice mandolin. Unfortunately, looks like the neck has failed.
    Do you mean where the trim binding is loose?
    Also, is the mandolin valuable enough to have a professional repair it?

  7. #5
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: I need help identifying a bowl back mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by yeblad View Post
    Do you mean where the trim binding is loose?
    Also, is the mandolin valuable enough to have a professional repair it?
    The binding (plastic) is an easy fix. The neck is bowed up making the height of the strings too high to play. It's not worth enough to repair. Similar instruments fail to sell weekly on eBay. I didn't even notice that until he mentioned it. You pretty much have a wall hanger there.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

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  9. #6
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    Default Re: I need help identifying a bowl back mandolin

    About the neck, in the second photo, the strings appear to be high above the fingerboard. Near the sound hole there should be roughly the thickness of a US nickel between the strings and the fingerboard. It looks a lot more than that. I would loosen all of the strings to prevent it from getting worse.
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  11. #7

    Default Re: I need help identifying a bowl back mandolin

    Thanks for all your help. I will make the repair and display it as a piece of art; great idea.

  12. #8
    mando-evangelist August Watters's Avatar
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    Default Re: I need help identifying a bowl back mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by yeblad View Post
    Thanks for all your help. I will make the repair and display it as a piece of art; great idea.
    You asked whether the instrument is valuable enough to repair -- if you mean market value, there's no question the repair will cost several times the repaired resale value. But what's going for it is that it's a medium- to good-quality instrument, and the condition looks to be excellent. IMHO its musical and historical value is way beyond its market value, so if it was mine I'd probably have it restored -- or at least hang it on the wall and wait for its fortunes to improve.
    Exploring Classical Mandolin (Berklee Press, 2015)
    Progressive Melodies for Mandocello (KDP, 2019) (2nd ed. 2022)
    New Solos for Classical Mandolin (Hal Leonard Press, 2020)
    2021 guest artist, mandocello: Classical Mandolin Society of America

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  14. #9
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: I need help identifying a bowl back mandolin

    It is a nice mandolin.Too bad about the neck joint. Still, some luthier may want to take it on.

    After studying some of the features, I find that it has similar features to some of the Stahl mandolins in my files. See below for a fancier Stahl-labelled mandolin.

    The headstock and pickguard shapes are similar. The pickguard inlay is very close to the one I have posted, however those were often bought pre-cut from a pearl supplier so I don't find that to be a definite match. However the fret markers and the fretboard end are also very similar to the Stahl labelled one below which means that there is a possibility that it was made by the same shop. Now, of course, many folks here know that some of the Stahl instruments were made by the Larson brothers but that is not definitive either in this case, though possible.
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    Jim

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    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: I need help identifying a bowl back mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    .. ....Now, of course, many folks here know that some of the Stahl instruments were made by the Larson brothers but that is not definitive either in this case, though possible.
    "Possible Larson".

    Here we go.....

    Mick

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  17. #11
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: I need help identifying a bowl back mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by brunello97 View Post
    ..Not possible...
    Amen.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  18. #12
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: I need help identifying a bowl back mandolin

    M&M: you know I am a charter member of the Non-Larson Society however they did make some mandolins. I am not saying they made this one only that it is a possibility.
    Jim

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  19. #13
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    Default Re: I need help identifying a bowl back mandolin

    Actually, some months ago I saw a Larson come up in one of these threads that everyone missed. But although clover shaped inlays were sometimes used by the Larsons, I'm leaning against it here. The general layout and choice of shapes just doesn't look like a Larson combination to me. And the Larsons inlaid their soundhole bindings rather than just gluing them flat against the edge. My guess is that this is upper line Regal or Washburn work. Regal could do really nice work when they wanted to.

    Nice mandolin, though. I'd be tempted to fix it even though the cost wouldn't make sense.
    Last edited by rcc56; Jul-14-2018 at 1:11am.

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