Fabric Softener for bending sides

[pelone]

I have read and heard that some builders have soaked their wood in fabric softener previous to bending on a hot iron. I tried to search forum for any articles and postings concerning this but have not found the source. Are there any builders who could give me feedback and advice on how to go about using this approach. Pelone

[AndyV]

I have no idea about this. What does the fabric softener do?

Thanks

[Larry Simonson]

My limited experience with this method told me that it is no magic bullet and I have no idea how it would ultimately affect the finishing steps. What I have found is that if I get the ribs hot enough they will bend, and the thinner the wood the easier it is bent.

[bennyb]

Here's one (of many) threads over at luthiers forum on use of supersoft(the preferred brand, currently). It aids in bending.

benny

[CarlM]

There is veneer softener which is available through Amazon and woodworking supply houses. It is a glycol and intended for these applications.

https://www.amazon.com/Sauers-Veneer...eneer+softener

[John Kelly]

I have no idea about this. What does the fabric softener do?

Thanks

Surely wood bent using fabric softener would be so much kinder to your hands?

[pelone]

Thanks and a shout out to bennyb for leading me to the correct thread. I had used SS fabric softener a year ago on some highly figured maple for the ribs of a mando. I found that it seemed to work well and I did not encounter breakout at the figured wood. I will soak for 24 hours and then bend on the iron. Will post the outcome.

[Stephen Perry]

Works fine, even for cold bending on a form.

[riverview]

Works,but a steam cabinet (Rockler) and a bending iron is so much better and faster with less rebound.

[pelone]

Success--I managed to bend highly figured sides without experiencing "breaking out" at the weaker sections. To determine if it was just my imagination, I also bent plain flat sawn maple---bent like rubber. Of course, the flat sawn material is nice but lacks the drama of the figured wood that is either vertical grain or slightly vertical grain. Would like to hear about the experience of others.

[Andy Morton]

Hi---I have been on a mission to use curly maple binding on my current F-5 build. Maybe its a fools erand...but I have had some success. It just looks so cool!!!!

I have used fabric softener and yes it did seem to work--soaking .04 " thick binding between a aluminum foil sheet for about an hour.

I then tried "Veneer Tamer" which I bought at Woodcraft (approx--$13) and it seemed to work much better. Again wetting the binding strips (with the spray bottle that it comes in) and letting it soak for an hour or so between a folded sheet of aluminum foil.

For all but the scroll curves---with this binding (.04") you can "cold bend" all other curves. For the scroll curves it requires heat for the bend--I use a soldering iron and bend around that with a aluminum fabricated backing strip (HoGo describes this in one of his posts--Thannks Adrian).

In short the Veneer Tamer works very well----and helps prevent delamination---even after the binding strips have dried.

I will try to post some pics later.

Good luck--anyone else trying this.

Andy

[printer2]

I used fabric softener for a while, Wanted to buy SuperSoft II but the shipping and custom fees were more than the SS itself. Finally bit the bullet and got a jug. Seeing that you are in the U.S. it would be more advantageous picking up a bottle. The FS can work but SS is much better.

[Lappy]

Fabric softener is a surfactant (wetting agent) that lowers the surface tension between a liquid and a solid. It does not impede the bending when used as a “pre-treatment” and smells nice too.

[graham darden]

I found super-soft liquid at a made in america store, super-soft flakes, and super-soft 2 veneer softener. Any suggestions on which one to buy?
Graham

[pelone]

I used SS fabric softener on some sides a week ago---left the ribs in the form for a week while I left on a camping trip, came back to find that the ribs have no "spring-back" and hold the intended shape quite nicely. It appears that there are no negative consequences such as discoloration or staining. A test piece seemed to take dye well. I did notice that even though I had thinned the wood quite substantially there was a bit of thickening to the finished piece. I am interested enough in the process to use it on other pieces of highly figured woods.

[graham darden]

I used SS fabric softener on some sides a week ago---left the ribs in the form for a week while I left on a camping trip, came back to find that the ribs have no "spring-back" and hold the intended shape quite nicely. It appears that there are no negative consequences such as discoloration or staining. A test piece seemed to take dye well. I did notice that even though I had thinned the wood quite substantially there was a bit of thickening to the finished piece. I am interested enough in the process to use it on other pieces of highly figured woods.

Where did you get the SS?

[pelone]

Graham----after checking the label----it is ALL Fabric Softener, "Fragrance and dye free"---bought it at local grocery market in the laundry and detergent section. I squeegied th liquid off with my fingers and did have to spritiz/spray with a mist---there was a bit of bubbling where various grains occur----took my time and tried to be patient. Practicing on highly figured maple scraps with various cross grains and weak spots gave me a feel and I just had to go much more slowly in comparison to walnut, mahogany and other clear wood that are a breeze to bend.

[HoGo]

The veneer softeners (Supersoft 2 or Veneer tamer) are just diethylene glycol monoethyl ether (CAS # 111-90-0), I don't know if (or how much) water it contains. It is very slow drying liquid that is part of the fabric softeners. You can also get it at chemical suppliers (though a bit more expensive than from the veneer suppliers).
You can get similar version it in UK here:
http://www.thewoodveneerhub.co.uk/th...neer-softener/
I couldn't find MSDS for that but I guess it's the ame stuff.

[Zoomp]

Kool. Is this useful for particular wood or certain bands. OS there a job where u would not use fs??

[barney 59]

There is no reaction with finish materials? The softener would have to soak through the entire piece of wood and would stay there. I would worry that whatever chemical residue was left by the softener might react with the finish and it might not be apparent right away but do it over time.

[pelone]

Barney---no negatives after several builds over ten years. I do not know if the liquid evaporates while bending...I do have to occasionally spritz with a spray bottle....fThe wood seems to accept finish nicely...However, I can not speak to how dyes and various stains react with the wood as I prefer to stay with woods that reveal there inherent beauty using a natural clear lacquer.

[HoGo]

The "glycol" softeners work by getting the water deep into wood and keeping it there - slowing down evaporation. The stuff will slowly evaporate, perhaps heat bending will force it out faster. Water is what makes the lignin in the wood more pliable. Uneven bends and breaking are result of uneven heating and moisture content through the thickness of the wood because of curl in the wood and less so by uneven stiffness of the piece.