Mandola?

[AlpineDave]

Hello, all. I've been off the forum for a while, but a question has come up the answer to which, I think, can best be found here.

I've been playing mandolin seriously for about three years now, and I've reached a level that allows me to play certain songs on stage with my band, both rhythm as well as solos now and then. The issue is that I've developed a bit of MAS, and have an itch to own and play a mandola. I've discussed this with the lead guitarist in our band, both a fellow musician as well as a friend, and he advises against it. He thinks that, as a relative newcomer to mandolin, the change in chord shapes on the mandola will create confusion and hamper my development on either instrument.

I'm not sure about that. My primary instrument is saxophone, but I also play clarinet, whose fingerings, though somewhat similar, are much more complex, and I've managed to keep the two separate in my mind and in my fingers. In response to my friend's caution, I've also considered an octave mandolin, but that might be going lower in tone than I'd like, and they seem to be more dear than mandolas.

Any thoughts?

[Ray(T)]

I've been playing guitar and mandolin for over 40 years and more recently adden an octave and then a mandola. I still tend to play mandolin with other people but prefer octave for solo work. I haven't fully explored the mandola's possibilities yet; partly because it's a pain dragging more than two instruments around and partly because, although the mandola is a Collings, it can't yet compete with the power of the other two in a session.

An octave mandolin has the same fingering as your mandolin but you might find some of the chord stretches too much for a straight transfer of ability plus, if you're playing with other people, tonally, an octave will be in the same spectrum as the guitar so won't be as up front as the mandolin. A mandola, on the other hand, might enable you to play in keys you might struggle with on mandolin.

If you're considering which to buy at this stage in your playing career, the likelihood is that you'll eventually end up with both.

[Mark Gunter]

In standard tuning, both the mandola and the mandolin will be tuned in 5ths -- and the same general frequency range! Only difference is that the mandola will lack the high E string and will add the C string below the low G string of the mandolin. I'm certain you already know all this, but the significance is that any "new" chords (chord shapes, fingerings) learned on a mandola are also directly transferable to mandolin, with no exception, other than physical limitations, and the only difference will be a change of key tonality. Play a G on mandolin ... finger same chord in same position on mandola, and it will be correct but now it is a C chord.

Switching between the two should be no different than a guitarist putting on or moving a capo around on a guitar, so far as chord shapes and fingering goes. So I would strongly disagree with this: "the change in chord shapes on the mandola will create confusion and hamper my development on either instrument".

I can only speak for myself, but it doesn't confuse me any more than moving a capo on guitar confuses me. We're not all the same, but you say you can finger sax and clarinet and switch from one to another. I don't think you'll have any problem dealing with a mandola along with mandolin.

[Bob Clark]

Go for it. You can do it; it's not that hard. Have fun with it!

[AlpineDave]

Thanks folks!

You know, there's another dimension involved, and that is, I started pretty late and I'm not getting any younger. If I wait until I'm sufficiently advanced on the mandolin to avoid possible confusion, I may not last long enough to get a mandola. So there's that.

Ray, thanks for the tip on the octave mandolin; I hadn't considered it's tonal overlap with guitar. Something to keep in mind. What did you mean when you wrote: ". . . although the mandola is a Collings, it can't yet compete with the power of the other two in a session." Do mandolas not have the resonance of a mandolin or octave mandolin?

[darrylicshon]

Doe's your guitar player play a 7 string guitar, or your bass player a 5 string if so it's similar to playing a mandola as to the mandola has one string lower than your mandolin, I have a few 5 string mandolins, it shouldn't be too hard to learn. As said above you can also get a octave mandolin/mandola tune it an octave lower than your mandolin same fingering and chords, I like to keep my octaves around 20" scale length which isn't too much of a stretch

[Bob Visentin]

I love my mandola, and except for an occasional brain lapse about what instrument I'm playing (no wait, that's a C chord) there is no problem going back and forth between mandolin and mandola. I like the mandola because I can stay out the fiddle range when I do back up chords and fills. Not only did it not hurt my mandolin playing I think it helped by getting me out of old rute and habits

My mandola is a Collings by the way and it is a cannon. If anything I have to be careful no to play too loud when it is not my turn to solo.

[billhay4]

Play a five course mando/mandola. Easier to learn and you don't have to switch all the time.
Bill

[allenhopkins]

...the lead guitarist in our band,...advises against it. He thinks that...the change in chord shapes on the mandola will create confusion and hamper my development on either instrument.

1. What doe he know? He's a lead guitarist, for Pete's sake.

2. There is no "change in chord shapes": the chord fingerings are the same. The difference is that the fingering that makes a G chord on the mandolin, makes a C chord on the mandola. The difficulty is in your head, not your fingers. You have to mentally transpose -- "if I were playing mandolin, I'd play D chords, but on mandola, I have to play A chords," stuff like that.

3. Mandola has a larger body and a (somewhat) longer scale. I don't consider it a huge difference, surely not as significant as the difference between sax and clarinet.

4. With regard to your band, devote some thought as to why a mandola would work better in the ensemble, on certain songs or overall, than a mandolin. If you're worried about acceptance from fellow band members, you have to show them how mandola would be an improvement, or at least not a detriment. Following your MAS is fine as a personal decision, but in a group, you need to achieve acceptance from everyone.

Just my 2¢.

[Ray(T)]

Thanks folks!

You know, there's another dimension involved, and that is, I started pretty late and I'm not getting any younger. If I wait until I'm sufficiently advanced on the mandolin to avoid possible confusion, I may not last long enough to get a mandola. So there's that.

Ray, thanks for the tip on the octave mandolin; I hadn't considered it's tonal overlap with guitar. Something to keep in mind. What did you mean when you wrote: ". . . although the mandola is a Collings, it can't yet compete with the power of the other two in a session." Do mandolas not have the resonance of a mandolin or octave mandolin?

That wasn't meant as a general comment on the merits of mandolin/mandola/OM but simply a reason why I tend not to take it out. We have some loud sessions round here and my 18 month old Collings hasn't yet developed the power of my 10 year old Kimble mandolin (which is on a par, volume wise, with my National RM-1).

[AlpineDave]

Thanks everyone for the helpful replies.

Allen, the lead guitar guy played some mandolin in his youth, and when he picks mine up he truly puts me to shame. But I believe he was thinking about the differences between mandolin and guitar and assuming the same would be true of mandola and mandolin. The band is great, very generous musically, and would be open to any instrument I could bring to it with reasonable competence (the rub!).

Bob, glad to hear that about the Collings--I'd love to have one.

[Seter]

If you haven't read it already, there is this similar thread on the CBOM subforum that might be of interest to you: https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/s...-Mandolin-Help I'm personally planning on getting an octave mandolin in the near future and capoing at the 5th fret as needed for mandola, though I'm sure a purpose built mandola is better than a capo'd octave mandolin.

[Steve Baker]

FWIW, I play a short scale (23”) bouzouki by Fylde. It really shines when capoed up to 3 or 5.
Steve

If you haven't read it already, there is this similar thread on the CBOM subforum that might be of interest to you: https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/s...-Mandolin-Help I'm personally planning on getting an octave mandolin in the near future and capoing at the 5th fret as needed for mandola, though I'm sure a purpose built mandola is better than a capo'd octave mandolin.

[Seter]

FWIW, I play a short scale (23”) bouzouki by Fylde. It really shines when capoed up to 3 or 5.
Steve

That is good to hear, I like the idea of two instruments for the price of one. What capo do you use?

[trabb]

Late to the conversation, but I'd actually say quite the opposite - playing another mandolin family instrument (in my case, mandola and then mandocello) made me a much better mandolin player. When I started playing mandolin, I thought in terms of chord shapes - if I put my fingers on these 2 frets, that makes a G chord. Picking up the mandola forced me to think a little differently: putting my fingers on these 2 frets makes a C chord, and I remember that because that open low string is the root of the chord (C) rather than a G. Maybe I'm not explaining well, but I had to start thinking more in terms of what notes the chord shapes correspond to rather than just "this is a G chord." That increased my knowledge of both instruments.

[AlpineDave]

Late to the conversation, but I'd actually say quite the opposite - playing another mandolin family instrument (in my case, mandola and then mandocello) made me a much better mandolin player. When I started playing mandolin, I thought in terms of chord shapes - if I put my fingers on these 2 frets, that makes a G chord. Picking up the mandola forced me to think a little differently: putting my fingers on these 2 frets makes a C chord, and I remember that because that open low string is the root of the chord (C) rather than a G. Maybe I'm not explaining well, but I had to start thinking more in terms of what notes the chord shapes correspond to rather than just "this is a G chord." That increased my knowledge of both instruments.

Good point. Thinking in terms of notes rather than shapes. The same might apply to running the scales, of which, in my case, there's a tendency to think in terms of spatial patterns rather than actual note progressions.

[mandroid]

CGDA, 5 in long scale FCGDA, short scale CGDAE..

[Hypoxia]

Besides everything else, I own (or am owned by) a cheap 19-inch mandola, and a cheap 17-inch taropatch 8-string tenor 'uke restrung with two Aquila 31U 5ths sets so it's a virtual mandola, or a mand'uke as I call it. The 17-inch scale is closer to a standard mandolin's 13-inch scale and eases chord stretches.

Violins and mandolins are pretty standard with around a 13-inch scale. Violas and mandolas are not so standarized and may range ftom 16 to 19 inches usually. Were I solvent, I might commission a 16-inch mandola. Were I nutz, I might restring a cheap lousy 19-inch bari'uke as a tenor guitar, essentially a 4-string mandola. Alas, 19 inches is just a bit of a stretch for 1st-position chords. I have trouble fingering 5230 or 4553 on longer scales.

Different neck lengths require different playing techniques, It's another learning experience, alas.