Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27

Thread: How did this happen?

  1. #1
    Registered User tonydxn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Mansfield UK
    Posts
    345

    Default How did this happen?

    I've just bought this 1918ish Gibson A to repair and sell on. It has a couple of interesting cracks. I have seen many cracks in mandolins, but mostly they follow the grain lines. This one wanders across the grain lines as if they weren't there. I wonder if anyone can explain what would cause a crack like that.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	t119c.jpg 
Views:	464 
Size:	40.0 KB 
ID:	168774

    There's one on the back, too - or rather a seam separation that runs into a crack at one end. This strikes me as odd because the back should be firmly glued to the neck block at this point, so I wouldn't expect to see this kind of thing just there.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	t119d.jpg 
Views:	337 
Size:	49.3 KB 
ID:	168775

    Any explanations welcomed . . .

  2. #2
    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Sugar Grove,PA
    Posts
    3,371
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: How did this happen?

    The dreaded beer bottle fall on the top?

  3. #3

    Default Re: How did this happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrasser78 View Post
    The dreaded beer bottle fall on the top?
    More likely someone sat on it! (no impact marks). That could have sprung the back loose from the block, so that's worth checking.

  4. The following members say thank you to ProfChris for this post:


  5. #4

    Default Re: How did this happen?

    Yep, sat on it or somehow got squeezed from both sides.

  6. #5
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    0.8 mpc from NGC224, upstairs
    Posts
    10,054

    Default Re: How did this happen?

    Wasn't there a massage thread recently?
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Bertram Henze For This Useful Post:


  8. #6
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,874

    Default Re: How did this happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bertram Henze View Post
    Wasn't there a massage thread recently?
    I have been biting my tongue about that since this went up. Yes.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  9. The following members say thank you to MikeEdgerton for this post:


  10. #7
    Registered User tonydxn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Mansfield UK
    Posts
    345

    Default Re: How did this happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    I have been biting my tongue about that since this went up. Yes.
    Sorry Mike - I did look, but couldn't find anything relevant. Even now I've been told that there is something, I still can't find anything. Would somebody mind pointing me in the right direction, please?

  11. #8
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,874

    Default Re: How did this happen?

    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MikeEdgerton For This Useful Post:


  13. #9
    Registered User tonydxn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Mansfield UK
    Posts
    345

    Default Re: How did this happen?

    Oh I see . . . squeezed from both sides . . . massage! Right, I geddit! As I have worked as both a printer and an English teacher in past lives I just assume anything I don't understand must be a spelling mistake. I read 'massage' as 'message'. OK folks, well you can all have a laugh on me, I'm fine with that

    Seriously though . . . I have repaired loads of sat-on mandolins - mainly neck joint damage - so I know it happens a lot. I can understand that it might lead to this kind of damage, though I haven't seen it before.

  14. #10

    Default Re: How did this happen?

    Yes, but right before it popped, you should have heard the tone!

  15. #11
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Manchester - Lancashire - NW England
    Posts
    14,187

    Default Re: How did this happen?

    That seems very odd. Usually thin wood will break along the line(s) of least resistance = along the grain. Possibly some residual stress in the wood after carving gave way ?,
    Ivan
    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
    Lebeda F-5 "Special".
    Stelling Bellflower BANJO
    Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
    Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.

  16. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Posts
    191

    Default Re: How did this happen?

    I would love to see some pics of the repair process.
    Graham

  17. #13
    Registered User tonydxn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Mansfield UK
    Posts
    345

    Default Re: How did this happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by graham darden View Post
    I would love to see some pics of the repair process.
    Graham
    Probably won't be much to show, but I'll see what I can do. First of all I'm going to leave it hanging up in my garage for a couple of weeks - the cracks should close up somewhat as the wood expands. I don't have time to start on it just yet anyway.

  18. The following members say thank you to tonydxn for this post:


  19. #14
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,874

    Default Re: How did this happen?

    Nothing like a little humidity to make the wood swell. I have a copy of a CF Martin repair manual that details repairing cracks with glue and humidity.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  20. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MikeEdgerton For This Useful Post:


  21. #15
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Kalamazoo, MI.
    Posts
    7,487

    Default Re: How did this happen?

    I like the small motorcycle tracks on the back!
    It looks like “compression” damage to me too.
    The back has separated along the center seam but, that has appeared to have “run” out from the seam. Repair should not be a miserable task but, it will take some time.
    Hey Mike, got any remedies for a stray cat hiding in the garage?
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  22. #16
    Registered User tonydxn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Mansfield UK
    Posts
    345

    Default Re: How did this happen?

    I did wonder if someone was going to say, 'Those aren't cracks, they're skid marks'

    I've never had a cat in the garage, though I did once have an American mink (which did quite a lot of damage before I managed to catch it and have it 'dealt with')

  23. The following members say thank you to tonydxn for this post:


  24. #17
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,874

    Default Re: How did this happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbofood View Post
    ...Hey Mike, got any remedies for a stray cat hiding in the garage?
    Harbor Freight sells a cheap copy of a Have-A-Heart trap. Put food and water inside. You'll get the cat.

    https://www.harborfreight.com/32-in-...rap-61682.html

    If the cat is bigger than that trap buy yourself a big old pet rat.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  25. The following members say thank you to MikeEdgerton for this post:


  26. #18
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,874

    Default Re: How did this happen?

    The "tire marks" appear to have been left by some sort of braided strap left in the case.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  27. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MikeEdgerton For This Useful Post:


  28. #19

    Default Re: How did this happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbofood View Post
    I like the small motorcycle tracks on the back!
    It looks like “compression” damage to me too.
    The back has separated along the center seam but, that has appeared to have “run” out from the seam. Repair should not be a miserable task but, it will take some time.
    Hey Mike, got any remedies for a stray cat hiding in the garage?
    Can't help you with the mandolin, but I've solved the stray cat problem several times. You give it a name and feed it. Works like a charm.
    Silverangel A
    Arches F style kit
    1913 Gibson A-1

  29. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Br1ck For This Useful Post:


  30. #20
    Adrian Minarovic
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banska Bystrica, Slovakia, Europe
    Posts
    3,461

    Default Re: How did this happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by tonydxn View Post
    I've just bought this 1918ish Gibson A to repair and sell on. It has a couple of interesting cracks. I have seen many cracks in mandolins, but mostly they follow the grain lines. This one wanders across the grain lines as if they weren't there. I wonder if anyone can explain what would cause a crack like that.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	t119c.jpg 
Views:	464 
Size:	40.0 KB 
ID:	168774

    There's one on the back, too - or rather a seam separation that runs into a crack at one end. This strikes me as odd because the back should be firmly glued to the neck block at this point, so I wouldn't expect to see this kind of thing just there.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	t119d.jpg 
Views:	337 
Size:	49.3 KB 
ID:	168775

    Any explanations welcomed . . .
    I see knotty top that has huge amount runout and/or twist so the crack follows the runout into the plate.
    The back shows crack from drynes. The block grain goes perpendicular to back and when the mandolin was exposed to low humidity the back contrcted and cracked. It wil most of the time appear at the blocks as the center part of top/ back can resist as it is free and arched - the arch will lower a bit when dry or will become higher when the wood expands. At the blocks there is no such freedom. The mark on bottom may be indication that the instrument was exposed to heat (parked car?) and that may explain the crack on top as well. the wood will crack in its weakest point. On f holed mandolins the f hole helps relieve that stress but often small humidity cracks propagate from ends o f-holes.
    Adrian

  31. The following members say thank you to HoGo for this post:


  32. #21

    Default Re: How did this happen?

    No explanations, but for the top - what about "wind" or "wind shake" where the tree is bent or torqued so much it delaminates/cracks to some degree, but lives on. Upon sawing out you might not discover the failure in a mandolin wedge, and it may only be at the edge of the failure at final carving - but latent none the less. You are more likely to pop it in a guitar top by the usual testing of warping and bending.
    The top is busy with tight grain - medium grain - tight grain changes, plus the knot at the rim and knot shadows scattered elsewhere,, plus some grain deflections in the band of wood between the sound hole and rim.
    I got nothing for the back crack.

  33. The following members say thank you to Eric Oliver for this post:


  34. #22
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Kalamazoo, MI.
    Posts
    7,487

    Default Re: How did this happen?

    Can’t help with the repair but, ten minutes with my wife being her amazingly patient self ( we’ve been married almost 30 years!) followed my me moving (a ton) of garage stuff out of the way, I found the poor thing hiding behind the chainsaw. I pulled up a firehouse sub pickle bucket and sat down to see if he would come out. After about five minutes, he came down off the bench shelf and skittered out under the Jeep. After about two more minutes of chat.... chat departée! Heard a dog bark and by the time I got to a point where I can see the neighbors backyard, I see a fast moving cat headed for home!
    I’ve now sprayed part of the end of a bottle of some sort of “ pee be gone” and the aromatic treat it left is mostly gone. I will have a days garage cleaning ahead of me anyway but, it’s better than finding a dead cat after we got home from vacation!
    Busy weekend ahead, “early summer birthday” party tomorrow so, there will be two more days of cleanup after that and then...who knows?
    How many other guys can shoot a repair thread so far off track as “this guy”? Sorry folks, the one in the garage, punishment is one thing but,.....
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  35. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Timbofood For This Useful Post:


  36. #23
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,874

    Default Re: How did this happen?

    I lost my cat over a weekend about 50 years ago. When she wasn't there in the evening on Friday I assumed she'd been hit by a car or something. She wasn't a wanderer and liked eating on a regular basis. Monday morning I had opened the door getting ready to leave and I heard her howl. I'm assuming she was exploring someone's garage when they came home Friday night and put the car in the garage and shut the door. She escaped when they went to work Monday morning. I'm glad you got it out and were able to send it home. I doubt that cat will spend any time any where near your house ever again.

    By the way, this is the definition of thread drift.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  37. #24

    Default Re: How did this happen?

    Timbo, I just tried a firehouse sub last week for the first time -- not bad! But, those are some sour pickles!

    Again, sorry for the thread drift.....

  38. #25
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Manchester - Lancashire - NW England
    Posts
    14,187

    Default Re: How did this happen?

    I was just about to post that the 'back tracks' may have been made by a braided strap,possibly a Neoprene one ? - but Mike E. beat me to it !!. I can't think of a braided ''anything else'' being back there. However - Bill Monroe's comment - ''Whup it like a rented mule'' comes to mind. Maybe the previous owner took it to heart ?,
    Ivan
    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
    Lebeda F-5 "Special".
    Stelling Bellflower BANJO
    Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
    Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.

  39. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ivan Kelsall For This Useful Post:


Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •