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Thread: Ebonizing?

  1. #1
    I really look like that soliver's Avatar
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    Default Ebonizing?

    What's your preferred method to ebonize wood? I'd like to be able to be able to have the look of ebony with other species, mostly because ebony is so expensive.

    I've been trying the simplest method of using Minwax Ebony colored stain, which in the end is more of a tint. I may be able to get my pieces stained very dark and black but when I add my clear coat (usually polyurethane), it just pulls half of the color back out of the wood.

    Then there is black laquer... maybe that's cheating... and it doesn't seem like it'd have the same durability. Thoughts?

    I did a little googling and found a method using a chemical reaction between a tanning agent and an oxidized metal in vinegar (dissolving #0000 steel wool in vinegar). It sounds interesting but I don't want to go to all the trouble and then have the color fade after applying a clear coat. Here is the article from Popular Woodworking about this method: https://www.popularwoodworking.com/t...ebonizing_wood

    So I ask again, what's your preferred method... and how are the results?
    aka: Spencer
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    Americanadian Andrew B. Carlson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebonizing?

    I've done the steel wool and vinegar technique. It worked fairly well, but I used it on old barnwood cut ends. So I never really monitored the finish after I sold it. I made one batch with rusted steel wool for a reddish color and that turned out pretty good too. The original batch just made the wood grey to vary dark grey.
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    I may be old but I'm ugly billhay4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebonizing?

    There is an article in the recent Fine Woodworking where he used India ink.
    I've also heard of using lamp black.
    Bill
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  6. #4
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    Default Re: Ebonizing?

    India ink,... that sounds like an interesting idea!.... probably prett messy!

    I'm not familiar with Lamp Black.

    Found an article on the wood workers guild where he recommends using Tea to add tannins... I bought some #0000 steel wool at HD yesterday so I'll start making some Iron Acetate tonight.

    Does anyone know if the Tannin/ Iron Acetate method is adversely effected by Polyurethane?
    aka: Spencer
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    Registered User THart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebonizing?

    I use casein paint for picture frames. I bet India ink would work too. I'd look for the Winsor Newton Black Indian ink in the shellac base. That should hold up well under poly I'd think. Cheap enough to experiment anyway.

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    Default Re: Ebonizing?

    Stew Mac has what you need or go to a proper shoe/boot repair and get a bottle of black boot DYE not polish but boot /shoe DYE such as FEIBING. This is alcohol based and similar to what the guitar makers such as MARTIN use on bridges and fingerboards.

    https://www.stewmac.com/SiteSearch/?...k%20wood%20dye

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  11. #7
    I may be old but I'm ugly billhay4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebonizing?

    IM(NS)HO

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    Default Re: Ebonizing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Hildreth View Post
    Stew Mac has what you need or go to a proper shoe/boot repair and get a bottle of black boot DYE not polish but boot /shoe DYE such as FEIBING. This is alcohol based and similar to what the guitar makers such as MARTIN use on bridges and fingerboards.

    https://www.stewmac.com/SiteSearch/?...k%20wood%20dye
    Feibing dye is probably your best bet -- it is permanent and it looks like ebony see pic of one of the persimmon fret boards I made compared to a Gabon ebony board. Feibing dyed persimmon board is on the left. It could not be simpler.
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    Default Re: Ebonizing?

    Many late 19th century/ early 20th century instruments [including some pre 1910 Gibsons] were made with what are sometimes called "dyed pearwood" fingerboards. These tend to be brownish black or greyish black in color, and many of them are now dry-rotting, splintering, or otherwise turning into powder. It has been said that they were dyed using a caustic agent, and vinegar is caustic. For this reason I would shy away from the vinegar and steel wool potion.

    I have also used Fiebing's leather dye with success. Be sure you get the alcohol based stuff-- they make several kinds. On persimmon, I found it necessary to use several wet coats and allow plenty of time for it to soak in and dry-- the persimmon I was using did not absorb it very easily.

    I bought a bottle of india ink at the artists' supply store, but have not had much time to play with it. Another option would be alcohol soluble aniline dye. In the old days, a dye called "ebonathiazole" [spelling?] was often used by violin people, but I have not been able to find it on the web.

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    Registered User bbcee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebonizing?

    @soliver, I used India ink on an old maple bridge, and it worked the business. I sealed it with something, I don't remember what, and no issues with it reacting.

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebonizing?

    A good water based stain won't react with a varnish finish. The Feibing dye that Bernie mentions is an alcohol based dye. I'd assume that the alcohol would evaporate,but there 'might' be enough residual left to react with any top coat = you'd need to try it,
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    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Ebonizing?

    For pearwood headstocks I use alcohol based black dye, really wet aplied few times then I apply shellac with a rag (the same #2cut I use FP) but add the black dye to the rag instead of alcohol. Then add some more stain and more shellac to seal the color. I can get anywhere from semi-transparent black to comletely opaque black. The finish doesn't affect the color when it is sealed with shellac unless you let it run.
    Adrian

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  21. #13
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    Default Re: Ebonizing?

    So last night I finally got around to starting to soak some 0000 Steel wool in vinegar.... I'll let you guys know how things progress!
    aka: Spencer
    Silverangel Econo A #429
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    to lose sight of the shore, ...and also a boat with no holes in it.” -anonymous

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  23. #14

    Default Re: Ebonizing?

    That should get you a nice gray, but not a rich velvet black without a lot of work. India ink or fiebings dye will both work as others have suggested.

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    Default Re: Ebonizing?

    I'm late to the party, but I have used this method with good results:
    https://www.popularwoodworking.com/t...ebonizing_wood
    Not for instruments, though.

    I did it for a threshold between two rooms with different floor heights that gets stepped on everytime someone passes. It looked great at the start. The color does seem to penetrate the wood as much as the solution does. After several years, it is beginning to wear through the color, but in an attractive way.

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    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebonizing?

    I didn't read the whole thread so this might have already been discussed, but I'll horn in anyway.
    The steel wool/vinegar method works OK, specially when trying to match the gray/green/black of old Gibson ebonized wood, but it relies upon tannin in the wood to really work well. Some woods, like oak, walnut, and some others are rich in tannin and will turn black quickly. Other woods, like maple will only darken a little over a few days.
    I've blackened maple by adding tannin. Tea is rich in tannin, so I brewed some very strong tea, soaked the maple in the tea and followed that with the vinegar solution, and I got a black very similar to the old Gibsons. The color does not go all the way through the veneer, in my experience. I haven't had the nerve to try it in a pressure cooler, but I'm told that can drive the color deeper into the wood.

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    Default Re: Ebonizing?

    The method I'm attempting includes more than just the steel wool and vinegar, it also includes brushing on a very strong tea to introduce additional tannins to the wood. If you read this article: https://www.wwgoa.com/article/ebonizing-wood/ he says to raise the grain twice, brush on some tea and let it soak in and dry and then brush on the iron/ vinegar mixture... it was super cheap to gather all the supplies so we will see how it goes.

    By the by, I am not ebonizing an instrument, just trying to get some nice dark Armrests, and I have boatloads of walnut which is supposed to work well given its natural tannins.

    I'll keep y'all in the loop!
    aka: Spencer
    Silverangel Econo A #429
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    "You can never cross the ocean unless you have the courage
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  27. #18
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebonizing?

    I found some pictures of maple veneer, soaked in strong tea and then in vinegar/steel wool.
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    The color match with the old Gibson dyed mystery wood is pretty darned close!

  28. #19
    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Ebonizing?

    Quote Originally Posted by sunburst View Post
    I found some pictures of maple veneer, soaked in strong tea and then in vinegar/steel wool.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The color match with the old Gibson dyed mystery wood is pretty darned close!
    John, but you should step down a notch or two on workmanship to match the old ways :-).
    BTW, from my latest observations of structure the veneers and black laminations of old Gibsons can very likely be "peeled" maple veneer. That can also be reason why they develop the network of tiny cracks over time.
    Adrian

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    Registered User Drew Streip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebonizing?

    Quote Originally Posted by sunburst View Post
    I found some pictures of maple veneer, soaked in strong tea and then in vinegar/steel wool.
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	168946Click image for larger version. 

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    The color match with the old Gibson dyed mystery wood is pretty darned close!
    Not to derail the thread -- but how did you attach that piece? Straight glue joint, or reinforced with something? Amazing work!

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    Registered User Drew Streip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ebonizing?

    I don't know if I considered it "ebonizing" at the time, but I used India ink to black out the inside of the box I made for my wedding rings. It worked well, although I don't know how it really looked, since it was a non-visible surface.

    It doesn't have to be too messy -- just make sure to wear gloves, and don't bump your workstation!

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    Default Re: Ebonizing?

    India ink is expensive so I watered it down. Maybe too much. They called me an Ebonizer Scrooge.




    Sorry.
    Bobby Bill

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    Default Re: Ebonizing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Streip View Post
    Not to derail the thread -- but how did you attach that piece? Straight glue joint, or reinforced with something? Amazing work!
    I'll refer you to this thread, although it is somewhat technologically challenged and the pictures didn't post along with the descriptions of the work. The pics are there toward the end of the thread.

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    Default Re: Ebonizing?

    see pic of one of the persimmon
    Bernie, Did you profile and slot before staining the fret board or after? And if it gets on the under side does it still glue ok? Thanks

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  36. #25
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    Default Re: Ebonizing?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Houchens View Post
    Bernie, Did you profile and slot before staining the fret board or after? And if it gets on the under side does it still glue ok? Thanks
    I applied the dye to the top and sides before the frets and I did not apply stain to the back side for just the reason you mention. I did not know if it would interfere with the glue. Although I guess it probably wouldn't because it is totally dry to the touch.
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