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Thread: Black Walnut....

  1. #1

    Default Black Walnut....

    So I'm going to dip my foot into building an instrument this year, and had a friend who took down a black walnut tree locally. I've had some super nice walnut guitars in the past, so figured I would grab some of the 20" long sections they had left after trimming.

    The heartwood ranges from 14-16" in diameter, and all the logs are about 24" in diameter with the sap wood. I think this should mean OK slabs for backs, and with the length I could probably make some necks.

    No, it's not maple--but I really love walnut

    Thanks to all the posts by Spruce and crew, I thought I would split into quarters and seal these.

    Anybody know how long these will take to air dry if I stack and pitch a roof on them out in the sun this summer as quarters?

    I can probably get access to a bandsaw to split the quarters into slabs and rough neck blocks and side strips...

    Thought you all would enjoy seeing so here are photos. Tell me how I did?

    P.S. There are more of these logs ranging from 12-16" long, with the same diameter... should I go back?

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  2. #2
    Registered Mando Hack dunwell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Black Walnut....

    Nice job on the splitting and doesn't look like too much runout/twist. Be SURE to seal the end grain right away, use some sort of wax if you can. I use some liquid stuff that potters use for their molds and it is mostly wax/latex mix. But a heavy coat or multiple coats of some sort of latex paint will work too. Store it out of the direct sun and where it is dry maybe up on a skid with a scrap plywood cover. I too like B. walnut a lot at least for guitars and bouzoukis, haven't tried it on a mandolin though. Lots of walnut trees just now what with the blight so harvest it while you can.

    Laters,
    Alan D.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Black Walnut....

    I was planning on sealing it tomorrow with titebond which was a recommendation from the only other woodworker I know in the area.

    Thoughts on how long it will take to cure in open air?

  4. #4
    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Black Walnut....

    Quote Originally Posted by ironscott View Post
    I was planning on sealing it tomorrow with titebond which was a recommendation from the only other woodworker I know in the area.

    Thoughts on how long it will take to cure in open air?
    Sealing with white glue is OK, apply generous layer and let it dry. Quarters will take years to dry and will crack like crazy especially if you leave them in the sun.
    What I would do:
    - remove bark
    - cut into thinner pieces (I would go for wegdes for mandolin backs and if the wood is as straight as this I would halve the wedges at the same time) or thick slabs (approx. 2") if you want it that way.
    Allow some extra thickness for shrinking and some twisting/bending. Generally thinner pieces are less likely to split during drying but more prone to cupping or twisting and thisker slabs are less tikely to cupp but more prone to cracking. All depends on exact cut and grain (in this case nice and straight)
    - sticker the slabs so there is good air flow all around and extra space on the bottom, you may want to treat the wood with borax or such to prevent rot or damage by insect if you are leaving it outside (on the grass). Put roof over the wood making sure there is extra space between the roof and the wood allowing good air circulation. Best is placing in open shed where the wood is well sheltered but air draught will help with good circulation.
    - you may want to check them after month or so if they dry evenly from all surfaces and show no damage from insect.
    - wait year per inch of thickness for thorough drying.
    - before use let it acclimatise in workshop for another few months or get it kiln dryed to 6% to make sure it is ready...
    Adrian

  5. #5

    Default Re: Black Walnut....

    Yeah, I'm going to have to figure out a good way to get this dry and stable.

    It splits very straight, so I'm going to froe it down into slabs and seal them and sticker them in the garage while I see if I can track down somebody with room in a kiln to get them dry
    Last edited by Scott R; Jun-15-2018 at 10:26am.

  6. #6
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Black Walnut....

    Quote Originally Posted by ironscott View Post
    ...see if I can track down somebody with room in a kiln to get them dry
    Careful there.
    Depending upon the type of kiln and the drying schedule, kiln dried walnut can look a lot different from air dried walnut. Air dried walnut retains the richness of color, the natural color variation, darker and lighter streaks... in general it retains it's character. Walnut dried in a commercial kiln is steamed. It comes out a uniform gray/brown color.
    Dehumidification kilns, solar kilns, and some others, especially with a good operator who is not in a hurry, can dry walnut and retain much of the character, but if it is just "thrown in" with other wood, it likely won't be an optimal kiln schedule.

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  8. #7

    Default Re: Black Walnut....

    Alright, so given that *I* don't have a kiln, and that I could sticker this in my (air conditioned) basement with a box fan in front of it--what's the best thing for me to do with it? I'd ideally like to get back sets and some blocks to use for necks and sides. If I follow HoGo's advice and split it up and potentially saw into 2" wedges and stack it, how long should I expect it to dry.

    Apparently I am time-scale challenged in understanding that I"m putting wood in the wood bank for a rainy year down the road....

  9. #8
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Black Walnut....

    It cannot be over over emphasized how important it is to seal the end grain (though I might be getting close by mentioning it once again) and the sooner the better after cutting to length. Reducing the quarters to smaller pieces will speed drying, but if the ends are well sealed they won't check if the wood is left as quarters. That means you have time to decide how you would like to proceed.
    Removing the bark can do no harm, but with walnut (a toxic wood) it is not as important as it is with other woods more susceptible to fungus and insects.
    Get an accurate scale and weigh some of your pieces. Record the weights (write the weight on the pieces) and periodically weigh them again. They will loose weight as they dry, and when they stop loosing weight they have reached equilibrium moisture content. If your air conditioned basement has a good relative humidity (40% to 50%), and if that is constant, you can calculate the moisture content of the wood. All you need is a good scale and a good hygrometer to know when the wood is dry.
    The old one-inch-per-year rule of thumb for drying wood is not accurate at all. Some species dry much slower, some much faster. Walnut dries pretty well. It is a porous wood without much in the way of tyloses, so movement of water molecules through the wood is pretty good. If you reduce the thickness to 2" +/- and maintain good drying conditions, the wood will most likely be dry in considerable less than two years. I would definitely reserve some thicker, longer pieces. You never know what you might want to use if for, and if it is too small...

    (I had some quartered curly maple that I got for mandolin backs. It was wider than I needed, so to save storage space, I ripped the boards narrower. Then I started getting orders for mandolas, and guess what. The wood that used to be plenty wide for mandola backs was now too narrow!)

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  11. #9
    Henry Lawton hank's Avatar
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    Default Re: Black Walnut....

    Those are splitting so straight you might be able to get several slab cuts of all Heartwood. That would put the flats you glue to the rim all heartwood from the center line of the tree.
    "A sudden clash of thunder, the mind doors burst open, and lo, there sits old man Buddha-nature in all his homeliness."
    CHAO-PIEN

  12. #10

    Default Re: Black Walnut....

    Heartwood is 14-15 inches, which is why I took as much as I did

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  14. #11
    I may be old but I'm ugly billhay4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Black Walnut....

    John is dead on about kiln dried walnut. Loses a lot of color and character unless done very carefully.
    Bill
    IM(NS)HO

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  16. #12

    Default Re: Black Walnut....

    End grain sealed. Now to find a bandsaw to block it out so it will dry in my lifetime.

    By the way, no checking at all and this stuff is soooo straight.
    Last edited by Scott R; Jun-15-2018 at 6:42pm.

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